johnireland

Crawling through Panorma, wondering if my 2000 cab will ever blow up, wishing I had a coupe so I could track it, and came upon ads from VertexAuto and RND engines...and starting thinking gee a rebuilt engine doesn't look that bad. Vertex has 3.4 long blocks for $9k (core charge to apply)...wondering if anyone here has prices from RND. It costs about $5500 to do the IMS solution to my car so a whole motor for about twice the price seems like a better deal. Sure there's labor and shipping, etc. But $15000 all in doesn't seem that bad when you compare it to the rising costs of everything else these days. And if you really like the car and want to keep it (or one like it) you'd be looking at many many years of solid performance. Anybody use either of these suppliers for their engines, and if so, how did it work out for you.

WalterRohrl

1. Why/What is it that causes it to cost $5500 for an IMS Solution to be installed on your car? Seems way higher than it should. But maybe you get a free "Lattes For Life" card or something from the barista with that...

2. Since you are comparing the cost to a rebuilt Vertex motor, are they now including an IMS Solution in their rebuilds? It's not any kind of valid comparison otherwise.

3. "Rebuilt" to me means an engine has been stripped down/disassembled and any parts that are BEYOND a certain wear factor are replaced. However, some wear on components is perfectly acceptable and common. If you have a running engine that has no current issues, you are basically replacing like for like, i.e. it would be stupid.

4. "Remanufactured", on the other hand, assumes that Any part with ANY wear on it is replaced along with part that may not show wear but age out, i.e. plastic. Big difference there as compared to "rebuilt".

5. Then on top of that there are engine builders that will, as part of their process "Remanufacture" AS WELL AS replace any component that has been known to be sub-optimal with a replacement of higher quality. I believe FlatSix would fall into that category. At a higher cost, of course.

I can't see myself ever buying an engine unless it is either NEW, or as explained in my points 4 and 5 above. Replacing a perfectly functioning engine with another for $9500 that works just as well but could be just as worn or more seems dumb.

And no, I don't buy into the IMS hype but do agree that the IMS Solution is the current best "solution" to the potential issue.

Jason 996

I apologize in advance for my ignorance on this, but what is panorma? I have seen this said in another post and originally thought it was just panorama that spell check did fix. But, in both cases i have seen it used it appears to be a place of information or forum. Thanks in advance for catching me up!

meirschwartz

panorama is the official magazine of the PCA (Porsche Club of America)
if you join the club, your membership fee will include a monthly copy of the magazine, at no cost.

https://www.pca.org/panorama-back-issues

dgjks6

Porsche magazine - I think you get it if you are a PCA member

5CHN3LL

Considering your track record, are you really trying to decide between six grand worth of preventive maintenance vs.15 grand for a new engine for a car you'll own for another month or two? 6 at the outside; I'll put 10 bucks on that.

Perhaps start out with something a bit more realistic... An air freshener? Maybe a new set of floor mats? A tank of Techron? Top off the wipe- I mean, have the dealer top off the wiper fluid?

Were you planning to wait until your engine blows up, or are you going to buy a new engine and install it as preventive maintenance? If the latter it's a shame KK is not around... He'd be proud.

Woodman71

Don't forget tire stem caps and center wheel cap alignment!

johnireland

That's the price quoted by Tony Callas' shop. This is for the complete solution that never has to be done again...ever. And because it is a tiptronic it requires removing some suspension parts and that then requires a new alighment. And it probably reflects west coast labor rates and the cost of doing business in California...and as I sure most know, to have this work done requires the engine being pre-qualified, which I am sure adds even more labor to the issue. In my opinion if you are going to do it, I'd rather do it once than look at it as a something that has to be done ever five years. Of course if one doesn't plan on keeping a car that long then maybe it doesn't pay to do it at all.

The reason I've been asking about the different rebuilds on engines isn't because I plan on doing it now or in the near future but because I'd rather look ahead and have a plan in place should it be necessary to do it. It cost me ten thousand to have a mildly hot 4 cyclinder race engine built back in 1989, so fifteen thousand in today's dollars for a...call it a "replacement" engine...doesn't seem that far out of line. To see what the Vertexauto engines include you can visit their website or look at the ad in Panorama. The RND ad doesn't give as much info but they also have a website and I will be checking that out.

As I mentally jump around from car to car...996 vs 997 tip vs pdk vs manual narrow body vs S...I really want to find a keeper that will satisfy all my interests. For me to be comfortable tracking a car...even just DE...I'd want the IMS either solved or in a 997.2, not even there. And then there is the oil starvation issue. For me the LN deep sump sounds like the most fool proof solution.

The ultimate solution might be to just keep my money in my pocket and wait for the 993/964 market to come back down to earth. The weak link is the OBD2 cars of post 1995. But in terms of todays dollars, I think the 996 is the best bargain out there...including the cost of a new engine. And that is why I'm looking for people who have tried the vendors I mentioned.

JimmyB

I dunno, if you had a whole bunch of jobs that needed done - timing chain guides, thermostat, water pump, plug tubes, idk what else - and throw an IMS bearing into the mix, a $9k "rebuild" starts to make moderate sense. Especially if you're paying $$$ for someone else's labour.

Me, I'd rather have 4 or 5 above, and if / when my engine grenades or needs major work I know who I'm calling. But you can make an economic argument for both approaches.

Alansglide

I had the LN bearing , clutch , water pump replaced when I purchased my car . Did not come close to that $ 5500.

5CHN3LL

Curious what you mean by this part. OBD-II is a godsend once you have a couple of older sports cars for which Comrade Brown and the CARB require smog certificates every 2 years. Sure, there ECU/DME can suck to replace, but having a car that can at least hint at what's wrong is a DIY ace in the hole...the emission readiness feature has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years.

Gonzo911

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny...Are you ok dude? First you firmly stated that the 997.2 engine is unreliable because, well, someone told you so. Second, you got all hopped up on the 1970's Fiero chassis even though Fiero's didn't start production until the mid 80's and now you are all worried about replacing an engine in a future Porsche even though you have no idea if you will really need to or, what kind of Porsche you will own.

I guess the last one doesn't really make you too much different than everyone else around here, but me thinks you might be off your meds again...

gnat

I think Johnny was on his GTI break and missed that awesome deal on floor mats from those totally legit and upstanding college kids. Those would have been right up his alley.

Turbojamie

MB Motorsport is also an engine builder. They rebuild a lot of engines and seem to have a good reputation.

Gonzo911

Autowerkes in Huntngton Beach, CA...especially if you're interested in a Cayman...