Dale Gribble

Holy cow do the renovations look amazing!
The place is shaping up to be a world class circuit for sure.

New paved areas on the track surface are much nicer than the old concrete patches.

Get as many days as you can while you can because they're going to be short lived.

DHI

Short lived?
Why?

Dale Gribble

Fewer days available to track-day-ers on the old GP course.
More people were talking about the new course is being made that combines the Oval and the DDT course into one big Voltron link-up of a track. I think even regional racing might move over to that one.

Will there be days available at the GP course? Maybe. As many as before? No.
Motorcycles I think are already done on the GP course after the one or two weekends this year (save for CSBK I believe).

Someone more knowledgeable can probably comment on this, but this is what I'm hearing now from multiple credible people.

Christien

I've thought for a few years now that the writing's on the wall for track days. The registration fees are getting way out of hand (most are around $600 now), and sooner or later the insurance companies will clamp down on them, both from the side of the drivers and their car insurance policies, and from the operators and their liability coverage.

Dale Gribble

Given that courts in Canada have a habit of upholding waivers of liability for risky events (both motorsport and otherwise) to a greater extent than the US, I'm not certain what insurance has to do with it (other than Mosport's liability insurance maybe increasing, which we would be pay thru increased fees). If something bad happens at the track, as far as Mosport is concerned it's too bad so sad. As well it should be given that all people involved are knowing participants in a sport with inherent risks. I don't mean to shoot your premise down point blank; but I'm not seeing the link. Does mosport's insurance coverage want them to have only cars with cages or something?

I think it has more to do with availability of days now that new events are coming in. Some high-profile clubs will probably get to keep their days, most won't.

Christien

Insurance rates will only go up, driving up the price, yes, but I do believe sooner or later the insurance companies will make it more difficult for people to use street cars on the track.

I was talking with my dad over the weekend (he's a litigation lawyer) about the court decision that specifically prohibited insurance companies from denying coverage for non-competitive track days. He said it was poorly argued (from the insurance companies' side) and can only stand for so long.

FFaust

Totally agree. I get the feeling that one of these days they'll kick us out, get rid of the lapping riff-raff so to speak. It's definitely becoming world-class, and I'm not sure they need or want the hassle of dealing with us.

Don't mean to be negative, I just see it as being unavoidable.

Rates have apparently gone up by $1,000 per day this year, with more to come. Typical case of 'be careful of what you ask for'; nice facilities and new pavement cost money.

I really, really hope that I'm wrong, and that Mosport doesn't turn into another COTA.

Yes, the new paved sections are much smoother and grippier, and the paved runoff at 1 and 2 is very confidence-inspiring.

Pags993

I think the days are numbered I am involved from a sponsorship standpoint and the new ownerships wants this place to be a money maker bar none - recoup the expensive purchase price, the investment made so far and yet to come. Simple dollars and cents and aggressive ROI will dictate the future for sure.

Dale Gribble

I don't think this will make that big a dent. I don't know anyone outside of certain 'listers, who expects to not have to wad their car up into a pile of scrap metal and have to walk away from it without insurance coverage. Ever since my first track day back in '04 my attitude has always been: track what you can afford to write off. (On that note, want to trade my 996 for an NC generation Miata? ) Agreed, you will lose some people who use their dailies as track toys, but I don't think this will make as big a dent.

That's just my opinion, but I do follow the logic you used to draw your conclusion, I'm just skeptical as to the impact.


FFaust and Pags993:

I can definitely see all the weekends being booked up with national/international events, regional events, major concert promotions (re: that country music festival amongst others).

But from a financial perspective, that covers maybe Thursday-Monday for "weekend events" if you follow the formula of Thursday and Friday practice days, Saturday qualifying, Race on Sunday and throw in a bonus lapping day on Monday like some orgs do (Ducati Club) or use Monday for teardown/move-out.

What about the Tuesdays/Wednesdays when there are no events so to speak. They could easily rent those days out. I'm sure someone there has a financial model to determine a rental rate for a track day with whatever margin they deem feasible plus a modifier for track surface wear. (And if they don't, I'm happy to be their spreadsheet monkey in exchange for free track time )

Would it not be reasonable to assume that some long-time clubs like 6th gear/PCA/BMW Trillium will continue to have days available to them if the membership is able to support the rental cost?

If they're all about driving return on investment for whatever group backed the acquisition then their objective should be to have the track booked 24/7 regardless of the event. They could have a Shriners funny car race there if someone was willing to foot the bill for it.

Turbodan

I believe most if not every major track in the US (including Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen etc) has lapping days which helps cover costs. So no reason to think it will end up here. Maybe on weekends. People that are in the know seem to think COTA will fail due to the way it is being managed and will get taken over by a group that understands they need lappers to help pay bills. This happened to another track few years back (which track slipped my mind).
That being said...you only live once so enjoy it while you can. Fuel prices could one day prohibit lapping.

JimV8

I agree that lapping won't go away as long as it pays for the track owner. Even if it covers the cost of cutting the grass it's still revenue.

TrackdayRSA.

I think if they do make any changes that it will be to weed out some of the poorer run (e.g. higher incident) lapping groups. I simply cannot imagine that they would turn away the 6th Gear or Engineered Automotive guys who run very professional events and are on the calendar every month.

mdex

The ownership isn't as worried about the quality of days, but rather the revenue generated by them. Last year Mosport was fully booked, as in every day was filled, and the profit level was an order of magnitude below what is desired by the ownership based on the current and future investment planed on site. The solution is simple, raise the revenue earned per day, and that will most definitely cut into track days as we would be looking at costs 4 times what they are today.

There is a thought that by renting the track to other groups (Manufacturers, Concerts etc), and limiting the access overall, the per day value can be raised over time. The owners have very very deep pockets and can afford to sit on a partially empty track for a few years in the short term to drive higher future revenue (a policy that they have successfully implemented in their other business ventures).

If I were to guess, I would expect that the future of track access will be 1. Some kind of Ron Fellows approved driving school, 2. Actual race days, 3. Apex track days (the owners of the track also have a share in apex) and 4. Some club days at greatly increased fees per day.

I could be completely wrong, but the current model the track runs under cant support the spending that is planned for the site.

The DareDevil

If tracks like The Glen, and others, can continue to support lapping days, I think Mosport can do it too.

Christien

Insurance, taxes (sales and property), gov't regulations, etc. are way different up here than in the US. A perfectly viable business in the US could very easily be a disaster here (and vice-versa) simply due to laws and tax structures.