Rallymasters- Looking for Advice
02-22-2008, 10:52 PM
#1
Under the Radar
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rallymasters- Looking for Advice
I'm hoping somebody checks here... 
My PCA region's rally chair position has been open for years, and I've been interested in rallies since I went on one last year. I know running a rally precludes me from participating, but I think it would be fun to drive roads and plan a rally.
I'm an engineering student, so I don't think the math involved in calculating position and the ideal time is beyond my ability. It just seems like a daunting task to organize and keep track of 30+ teams. I'm willing to try my best, but my PCA region runs things really well...they appreciate any volunteer work, but I want to be up to task. I also lack a trustworthy odometer...my 944's odo runs roughly 5% off.
I've checked for some rally books, but it seems like all the good ones are out of print.
Comments? Please PM me if you're a rallymaster or have any useful advice- I may forget to check here.
My PCA region's rally chair position has been open for years, and I've been interested in rallies since I went on one last year. I know running a rally precludes me from participating, but I think it would be fun to drive roads and plan a rally.
I'm an engineering student, so I don't think the math involved in calculating position and the ideal time is beyond my ability. It just seems like a daunting task to organize and keep track of 30+ teams. I'm willing to try my best, but my PCA region runs things really well...they appreciate any volunteer work, but I want to be up to task. I also lack a trustworthy odometer...my 944's odo runs roughly 5% off.
I've checked for some rally books, but it seems like all the good ones are out of print.
Comments? Please PM me if you're a rallymaster or have any useful advice- I may forget to check here.
03-04-2008, 06:25 PM
#2
Weathergirl
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Setting up fun rallies is pretty straightforward. Depending on how much manpower you have to work checkpoints, you can do them a bunch of different ways.
One thing that's a major consideration these days is insurance. Some car insurance policies explicitly exclude "timed" events. So even though your rally may be completely legal and on public roads, if something happened a participant could be denied coverage. The solution is to skip any checkpoints that require them to stay on time. Most Porsche-type people find it more fun to go at their own pace anyway.
One thing that's a major consideration these days is insurance. Some car insurance policies explicitly exclude "timed" events. So even though your rally may be completely legal and on public roads, if something happened a participant could be denied coverage. The solution is to skip any checkpoints that require them to stay on time. Most Porsche-type people find it more fun to go at their own pace anyway.
03-06-2008, 03:25 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uxbridge, Ma
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are several challenges to setting up rally's. Making them difficult to keep the more advanced drivers interested, and making sure everyone has a chance to finish.
Pure TSD rallies require a bit of time to set up, plan for traps, plan for directions to get people back from traps, finding unique side of the road items to provide for ' on course' confirmations, and general references. The gathering of checkpoint personnel can determine how many checkpoints will be included. The number of participants isn't really much of an issue, unless you plan for 30 and have 100 show up.
Fun rallies are basically a better starting point. It will give you the ability to define turns clearly (or not so clearly), find roadside objects that can be seen at 30 MPH, find interesting side stops (rather than checkpoints- allowing the group to come together before setting off on more instructions). Ending at a brewery is always fun...at lease somewhere fun to eat. Hardest part is finding interesting routes with limited road traffic.
There is a Porsche group in the NE Region area on this website that has such runs through the Southern Ma and Cape Code areas. Look for 'Breakfast club'. He provides run sheets .
If you check with the SCCA region as well as the PCA, you may find some more Rally interest there. Usually, SCCA has the insurance to cover the event, but you have to meet other criteria to have the event sanctioned. These would be more TSD orientated. (time/speed/distance). There the ability to provide a ODO check for the participants, and they can correct for your ODO from there (more fun calc more data!). But they do fun rallies as well. The ability to use a GPS with 'trails' will allow you to track and measure your intended route, and the ability to repeat the route while you are planning the rally.
For a hint at the Pro Rally events, the Maine Forrest Rally is always looking for volunteers just before the event. Check out their website and signup for their event.
Pure TSD rallies require a bit of time to set up, plan for traps, plan for directions to get people back from traps, finding unique side of the road items to provide for ' on course' confirmations, and general references. The gathering of checkpoint personnel can determine how many checkpoints will be included. The number of participants isn't really much of an issue, unless you plan for 30 and have 100 show up.
Fun rallies are basically a better starting point. It will give you the ability to define turns clearly (or not so clearly), find roadside objects that can be seen at 30 MPH, find interesting side stops (rather than checkpoints- allowing the group to come together before setting off on more instructions). Ending at a brewery is always fun...at lease somewhere fun to eat. Hardest part is finding interesting routes with limited road traffic.
There is a Porsche group in the NE Region area on this website that has such runs through the Southern Ma and Cape Code areas. Look for 'Breakfast club'. He provides run sheets .
If you check with the SCCA region as well as the PCA, you may find some more Rally interest there. Usually, SCCA has the insurance to cover the event, but you have to meet other criteria to have the event sanctioned. These would be more TSD orientated. (time/speed/distance). There the ability to provide a ODO check for the participants, and they can correct for your ODO from there (more fun calc more data!). But they do fun rallies as well. The ability to use a GPS with 'trails' will allow you to track and measure your intended route, and the ability to repeat the route while you are planning the rally.
For a hint at the Pro Rally events, the Maine Forrest Rally is always looking for volunteers just before the event. Check out their website and signup for their event.
03-09-2008, 11:56 PM
#4
Under the Radar
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks guys. I rarely have an objection to driving somewhere, but Maine sounds really out of my way.
In terms of club support, I went to the yearly planning meeting and introduced myself to the region president. I have his full backing, and half the attendees outright applauded me when he publicly mentioned that I was interested in running a rally or two. There's definitely club support.
It seems my region hasn't had a chair in 5-6 years...chances are that relatively few experienced people call my region home. Everybody seems to go for DE, having Lime Rock within the region. I don't think I would have people with super-calibrated odos and the like show up. I could probably get away with a TSD rally (meaning some rules and pressure on participants), but informal enough where everybody can have a laugh at the end. I do have my own GPS for route tracking.
Sounds like traps and failsafes are the most challenging part, in addition to general logistics that come from running anything. Think it's doable alongside a 40-hour workweek? (hoping for a fairly 9-5 internship somewhere)
In terms of club support, I went to the yearly planning meeting and introduced myself to the region president. I have his full backing, and half the attendees outright applauded me when he publicly mentioned that I was interested in running a rally or two. There's definitely club support.
It seems my region hasn't had a chair in 5-6 years...chances are that relatively few experienced people call my region home. Everybody seems to go for DE, having Lime Rock within the region. I don't think I would have people with super-calibrated odos and the like show up. I could probably get away with a TSD rally (meaning some rules and pressure on participants), but informal enough where everybody can have a laugh at the end. I do have my own GPS for route tracking.
Sounds like traps and failsafes are the most challenging part, in addition to general logistics that come from running anything. Think it's doable alongside a 40-hour workweek? (hoping for a fairly 9-5 internship somewhere)
03-10-2008, 08:59 AM
#5
Chainsaw
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
While we do compete in the local PCAs gimmick rallyes, we have shied away from the TSD rallyes. In the past, I've planned several tours and as I've been stung in the past with bad directions, I'm a stickler for precise directions on tours. There is nothing worse than having a parade of 30 Porsches all trying to make U-turns because the directions were not clear.
The speedo problem is an easy fix with a GPS system, I prefer Garmin.
I've also purchased the Microsoft streets and maps software that allows me to see an overview of the area and play with the route.
Jumping into planning a TSD rally is not something I would want to accomplish at this stage of my rallye experience. You are likely to get some real **** rallyers that will beat you down. Start with some simple fun runs, maybe one every three months. Then make a Fall Gimmick rally.
Poker runs are also popular. This will combine the fun run into a challenge.
Take it slow, judge the interest in the PCA group you are in and have fun. Most routes I've planned take a minimum of five drives to ensure accuracy.
The speedo problem is an easy fix with a GPS system, I prefer Garmin.
I've also purchased the Microsoft streets and maps software that allows me to see an overview of the area and play with the route.
Jumping into planning a TSD rally is not something I would want to accomplish at this stage of my rallye experience. You are likely to get some real **** rallyers that will beat you down. Start with some simple fun runs, maybe one every three months. Then make a Fall Gimmick rally.
Poker runs are also popular. This will combine the fun run into a challenge.
Take it slow, judge the interest in the PCA group you are in and have fun. Most routes I've planned take a minimum of five drives to ensure accuracy.
03-27-2008, 09:32 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
I've competed in probably 100+ TSD's, run "car 0" and worked checkpoints (CP's) for others and competed in regional performance (Stage rallies), both as a driver and co-driver. But I've never organized a TSD and wouldn't try it on my own first time out.
I'd suggest hooking up with your local navigational rally folks - and help organize a TSD or two to see how it's done. The TSD folks will LOVE your help! There's never enough help to run a rally.
You'll probably hook up with some folks who will gladly support you in running some events for the PCA guys.
Good luck!
RK
I'd suggest hooking up with your local navigational rally folks - and help organize a TSD or two to see how it's done. The TSD folks will LOVE your help! There's never enough help to run a rally.
You'll probably hook up with some folks who will gladly support you in running some events for the PCA guys.
Good luck!
RK
05-26-2008, 02:16 AM
#7
Instructor
I'd suggest hooking up with your local navigational rally folks - and help organize a TSD or two to see how it's done. The TSD folks will LOVE your help! There's never enough help to run a rally.
I was involved with a local car club for years, we put on a Monte Carlo style rallye from Santa Barbara
to Las Vegas that ran annualy for Years (30+) in addition to smaller local "saturday nite" rallyes and two that ran Santa Barbara to the Bay area (S.F.) I was involved both as an offical and a participant.
To put on a smooth running event is a HUGE amount of work, get involved with your club, help put on a few rallyes, run check out, run a checkpoint, then, help your rallymaster write a rallye.
What you are going to find is that for the most part a small group of people do almost all the work for this kind of thing.
Even with an event that is 100% legal (run at or below the speed limit ) you can run into a cop who will shut you down (it has happened to us, " you're not doing this on my road")
I wish you success, I've had lots of fun doing this kind of thing, and not enough people are willing to do all the leg work.
John
Trending Topics
01-14-2016, 02:52 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
WOW - old thread, guess it is indicative of current interest in rallyes.........
As was the OP, i am interested in acting as my local PCA club's rally chair.
I want to run at least 2 rally's a year and will probably start out with a poker or gimmick(whatever those are.............) before attempting a TSD with a skilled rally masters help.
Who wants to provide advice??
I'm specifically looking to understand what type of a rally is easy for non-rally experts to attend and enjoy, as i set the hook to interest them in "more competitive" events therafter.
My PCA club is supportive and will provide insurance.
Thanks
Craig
As was the OP, i am interested in acting as my local PCA club's rally chair.
I want to run at least 2 rally's a year and will probably start out with a poker or gimmick(whatever those are.............) before attempting a TSD with a skilled rally masters help.
Who wants to provide advice??
I'm specifically looking to understand what type of a rally is easy for non-rally experts to attend and enjoy, as i set the hook to interest them in "more competitive" events therafter.
My PCA club is supportive and will provide insurance.
Thanks
Craig
01-14-2016, 03:26 PM
#10
Chainsaw
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
WOW, a really old thread. 2008. So much has happened in these 7.5 years.
For our out of town wedding I printed up turn by turn instructions from the interstate exit for those not familar with this destination. Of course, the directions started out saying to ZERO YOUR TRIP ODOMETER. Then each turn was noted by the cumulative mileage from this starting point.
Imagine my surprise when I found several drivers had zeroed the odometer at every turn.
Sometimes you will forget to mention what is obvious to others.
For our out of town wedding I printed up turn by turn instructions from the interstate exit for those not familar with this destination. Of course, the directions started out saying to ZERO YOUR TRIP ODOMETER. Then each turn was noted by the cumulative mileage from this starting point.
Imagine my surprise when I found several drivers had zeroed the odometer at every turn.
Sometimes you will forget to mention what is obvious to others.
01-14-2016, 03:51 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Uhm - I guess I have to eh? ; ) (offer some advice, that is)
As mentioned - your local rally folks will probably be able to provide insight and guidance on even a basic fun rally. I was on the Board of our local Rally group years ago and one of the services we provided was support to corporations who wanted to run fun rallies.
Despite it's current ebb, rallying is a ton of fun and accessible at the entry level for near zero cost.
Even the navigational stuff is enjoyable.
RK
As mentioned - your local rally folks will probably be able to provide insight and guidance on even a basic fun rally. I was on the Board of our local Rally group years ago and one of the services we provided was support to corporations who wanted to run fun rallies.
Despite it's current ebb, rallying is a ton of fun and accessible at the entry level for near zero cost.
Even the navigational stuff is enjoyable.
RK
08-11-2019, 06:59 PM
#12
7th Gear
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rally advice
Welcome to rallymastering! It's a lot of fun, and doesn't have to be hard to do. I have been doing it for 50 years, first for the Dallas Sports Car Club, and then the SCCA. Which is my first bit of advice: do your event for a club. PCA will provide insurance, and you should be able to count on their members for entrants. Do NOT ever run a rally without insurance. The cost to you and your club of a single accident can be staggering. Insurance is cheap, because rally accidents rarely happen (if the rallymaster knows what he is doing!) The best way to discover how to write a good, safe event is to enter some. My local chapter of SCCA puts on 5 or 6 per year, and we would love to have you as an entrant. See http://msreg.com/DMR19msr for entry information (and a start on your learning process!). All our rallies are what some call gimmick rallies, where timing is only important if you are too late at the finish. Timed rallies are lots of work, and take a big crew (checkpoint workers) to put on. Your first event should not have any tricks or traps...just drive from here to there, say, in an hour or so. End at a restaurant or club meeting.
If you check among your potential entrants (local PCA members) and discover that they all want a timed event, you are in luck. An SCCA member has invented a neat system that avoids checkpoint crews, but allows any number of timed points, where you can tell whether each car arrived there early or late, and have scoring done for you by an app. Each entrant must have the app, and you have a "rallymaster app" that does all the work for you. But you can ruin everyone's day by creating an awful route that people don't like, so you really need to run several events to discover what makes a "good" route.
Go to scca.com and go to "roadrally" under "programs", to find an SCCA rally near you. Or pca.com will probably do the same for you.
Yes, it can be complicated and time-consuming. But you can make a simple rally that is fun for you to do, and easy to write. You and your local entrants can move to more competitive events as you grow with the sport. go run a few, and you will see.
Sasha Lanz
ex-SCCA Road Rally Board member
SCCA Southwest Division Road Rally Steward
Texas Region, SCCA past Road Rally chairman
a.lanz@tx.rr.com
If you check among your potential entrants (local PCA members) and discover that they all want a timed event, you are in luck. An SCCA member has invented a neat system that avoids checkpoint crews, but allows any number of timed points, where you can tell whether each car arrived there early or late, and have scoring done for you by an app. Each entrant must have the app, and you have a "rallymaster app" that does all the work for you. But you can ruin everyone's day by creating an awful route that people don't like, so you really need to run several events to discover what makes a "good" route.
Go to scca.com and go to "roadrally" under "programs", to find an SCCA rally near you. Or pca.com will probably do the same for you.
Yes, it can be complicated and time-consuming. But you can make a simple rally that is fun for you to do, and easy to write. You and your local entrants can move to more competitive events as you grow with the sport. go run a few, and you will see.
Sasha Lanz
ex-SCCA Road Rally Board member
SCCA Southwest Division Road Rally Steward
Texas Region, SCCA past Road Rally chairman
a.lanz@tx.rr.com
