FeuerRacing

Ah.. Every racers dream!

hf1

I too would like to know if wins like that exist for under $4k per weekend. I'm afraid that for old farts (>40) the only path to semi-pro co-driving invitations may be through wins in >$150k/year series -- but would love to be shown otherwise.

audipwr1

I'm not a >40 fart!

hf1

Then may the odds be ever in your favor!

winders

Talk to Hedlund. It sure helps to have a really large budget!!

ProCoach

Ah, the real motivation pops up!

Racing economics are a funny thing. They parallel common sense sometimes and can be completely out of kilter the next.

Your best bet for being "brought in" as a subsidized co-driver for the 25 Hours is a) through personal relationships with existing teams that have a long history of participating in that event, b) bringing money or something of significant value to the team, through sponsorship, business-to-business relationships or other compelling contribution, or c) repeated championships in fields of exceptional competition and significant visibility, like Conti, MX-5 Global Cup, F2000.

Most folks "brought in" either have that relationship, bring money or are pros taking a "busman's holiday." Not saying this can't happen, just that THAT goal needs to be overriding, not climbing the motorsports ladder in order to position yourself in the hopes that you'll be plucked from obscurity for this single race. Not trying to be harsh, just realistic.

Finally, agree with hf1. Drivers seeking more competition don't define their competitive desires based on a budget limit, they do whatever they can to put themselves in the venue they feel will allow them to not only be graded against worthy cause competition, but really get a sense of how they stack up against more serious, committed and competitive drivers.

Good luck, but to do what you want, you are going to need to throw that arbitrary budget cap out the window, IMO.

hf1

Would be interesting to see a table/article where all-in costs/yr (or /weekend) for podium level participation in all racing series (from F1 down to Spec Miata) are compared in one place. Even better, how much it would cost (per race) in terms of $ or attracted sponsorships for a decent driver to put himself into a seat in any of those series. Ball-park numbers.

And I understand that the better/faster the driver (i.e. the larger his cv in similar races) the lower the costs for him will be.

It seems that one viable path would be a string of judicious choices in series/teams/races where one starts by paying up (due to being unknown) but every additional successful participation builds the driver's reputation thus lowering his participation costs going forward. All paths will likely require some combination of budgets, skill, and luck as necessary ingredients.

ProCoach

Not that simple. Witness young Mr. Lance Stroll... And he has talent, too!

FredC

Agreed with Peter.

For what it's worth, I raced amateur with PCA for 4 years, had a strong winning record which contributed (along with race shop relationship) to getting me a taste of pro racing (Continental Tire Challenge) at what i would call a subsidized price. What wasn't subsidized was the lesson in humility LOL. Whole different level once you get in that realm (e.g.: Billy Johnson driving the roush mustang) and i imagine that it would be the same in races like the 25 hours. I'd say that a good place to be to prep and perhaps get subsidy is in racing that isn't gentlemen's racing - like a season of strong showing in spec Miata racing in order to run in a spec Miata type car in the 25 hours. My 2 cents.

ProCoach

GREAT post, and representative of most of what I see going on. A lot of it boils down to luck...

Racing at the higher levels (and I would include the 25 Hours in that, in the last few years) is MORE than a competitive result, too. Lots of human interest stories, charities benefitted, other angles than just the overall or, to a lesser extent, class finishing order.

I think of Mark Drennan and Liam Dwyer, there because of Mazda's backing. I think of Mike Skeen, with his connection running the SLC in shorter races. I think of the BimmerWorld guys, often made up of driver rosters that include, at one time or another, nearly their whole history of Continental and World Challenge (some time ago) drivers.

The level of racing, team and car level, of that event has locked out the ability of less than top level teams, not staffed with pros, from the top of the overall order. So, focus on an attainable goal.

You need to bring hyper focus to THAT goal and you may need to think out of the box to get there. Good luck, audipwr1!

hf1

I hope I didn't imply it was simple.
Young pros, starting in karts at age 6, and supported by billionaire dads (like Stroll) shouldn't even enter this discussion. We're discussing the paths, chances, and costs for "gentlemen" (nee, old fart) drivers (with no chance or aspirations to ever go pro) to put themselves in a position to rub fenders with said pros in the most cost effective manner.

Well done! By your estimate, what was the % of the subsidy you think you received and how much was it correlated with your skill (past performance)?

ProCoach

No, you didn't. Not at all.

Considering a majority of the folks I work with fall into the "gentlemen" (nee, old fart) driver category (I disagree with NO chance and, of course, aspirations change over time...), I think that while "value" definitely comes into it, most who wish to "put themselves in a position to rub fenders with said pros" do not weigh the cost effectiveness of their choices as much as dedicate what it takes to DO JUST that.

That's one of the reasons why there are "Masters" classes in a variety of entry level pro series, to allow and encourage this sort of thing.

When I was running my race prep, transport and support shop, I never got out or spent much time comparing costs between series, or between efforts IN particular series.

Since I left that business and for the last ten years worked under a variety of team and individual effort's tents (and in MANY more series than I did as a specialty prep shop owner), I see HUGE variations in costs, fees, budgets, commitment levels, staffing, car build and car prep levels.

It's amazing. What is even more amazing is that beyond a certain level, the amount of money spent does NOT necessarily equate to better, more competitive or more reliable outcomes. That's why it's difficult for me to envision an all-encompassing matrix to illustrate and compare across a variety of cars and levels of competition.

When people ask me "the question" (well, there are a couple of "questions" people repeatedly ask, but I digress), "what series and car should I race?", I usually reply "race what you REALLY like, because THAT is going to have to sustain you through some inevitable tough times." There are a few people that shrug their shoulders and say, straight out, "well, I'd rather be a big fish in a smaller pond..." Hey, whatever keeps them IN the pond, I say! There are others that say, "hmmm, I have a chance to buy a $100K seat at the Rolex 24 in GTD for $75K, based on the likelihood that I am the second quickest driver" and if that is some thing they REALLY want to do, and HAVE wanted to do that for some time, by all means, GO FOR IT! I've had more than a few do that, and fewer still pay a more discounted rate because they WERE the fastest guy on the team.

I still think that this sport, beyond "hobby racing," where each driver is solely responsible for his expenses and investment, relies tremendously on long-term (or more than a cold-call) relationships. Be it an aspiring, underemployed pro (or someone with demonstrable and successful pro experience) who snares a sugar-daddy and they form a co-driver team or two-car team, one for the "coach" and one for the money guy, or friends call other friends and say "come out and fill out this team for me," it's all the result of ongoing relationships and other intangibles, not just what that person did in their last race.

Bottom line is that there are a WHOLE lot of talented shoes out there. WAY more than there are seats. Racing has gotten SO expensive, even at the Club level, that the expectations are huge, for everyone in the team. When you have Leh Keen, Spencer Pumpelly and Kenton Koch (the latter two walking the pit lane at the Roar, BOTH former winners), that's a tough deal.

It's not simple. Just like you said.

hf1

Thx for the great post, Coach. Incidentally, I "rubbed fenders" with Kenton Koch (well, not really cause you had to catch him first ) in SBRS MX-5 series few years ago when he was an up and coming young whippersnapper, so there's that. Great kid and always willing to share. I may still have a video he gave me of one of his runs -- just asked for it and he gave me the usb right away.

ProCoach

Hahaha! "Gumby" (Koch) is like Tom Long, a tremendous ambassador for the sport, a neat guy, a fierce and talented competitor, won a watch at Daytona in the Rolex 24 last year in his first attempt. He's friendly, upbeat and gives a great deal back to the sport, and he's still young! Neat story. Small world.

FredC

Not sure and not sure. I just know that it felt like an opportunity i wasn't going to pass on.