Sword_of_the_Spirit

Hello all,

I'm looking for "rough" data to gather on timing from 2014-present for Buttonwillow in a modded 993 (i've searched the inter webs and very little is given on timing and setup.....). I'll list mods and see if there are similar times. It was my first go and I was hitting anywhere from 2:03-2:07 (13CW)with a new car (100mi previous experience and new track with car). My experience is out in middy U.S. (RA, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Mid O).

95' 993
Touring Body Work
Semi Stripped interior
PSS10
Full RS Cushy Bits with various Monoball, Walrod Bushings, solid sides
Cup Box
RS fly and clutch
Full RS specific Big Reds w/Ferodos
Chipped Stock engine w/fabspeed x pipe and cats (not that it matters....)
Nitto NT01's

Any help will be appreciated as i'm sure there is a fair bit left on the table.

Thanks,
Michael

Martin S.

I run Buttonwillow multiple times per year, with the Porsche Owners Club (POC): it's only 1 1/2 hours from my house. What would help for me to compose a more germane response, what does the car weigh with driver an 1/4 tank of gas? And how much HP to the rear wheels? If I know this I can tell you what class your car will be in, and the respective class records. But to make it simple, let's look at the POC GT classes...they are anything goes, strictly weight/HP.

GT5 on Nittos is 13:01 to 15.50 Lbs per HP, or 13:51 to 16:00 on Hoosiers: 2:02.5 class record times averaging CW and CCW.

There is a 5% weight allowance...so if your car dynos at 250, less the 5% allowance, we have 237 HP. On Nittos with 237 HP X 13.01, your car's minimum weight at the scales post race must be at least 3,083 Lbs with driver and a splash of fuel.

Conclusion, if you want to run the car in its present state, add/delete weight to run in GT5. If you can run 2:02s and 2:03s, you'll be a winner.


I'm looking for "rough" data to gather on timing from 2014-present for Buttonwillow in a modded 993 (i've searched the inter webs and very little is given on timing and setup.....). I'll list mods and see if there are similar times. It was my first go and I was hitting anywhere from 2:03-2:07 with a new car (100mi previous experience and new track with car). My experience is out in middy U.S. (RA, Autobahn, Blackhawk, Mid O).

95' 993
Touring Body Work
Semi Stripped interior
PSS10
Full RS Cushy Bits with various Monoball, Walrod Bushings, solid sides
Cup Box
RS fly and clutch
Full RS specific Big Reds w/Ferodos
Chipped Stock engine w/fabspeed x pipe and cats (not that it matters....)
Nitto NT01's

Any help will be appreciated as i'm sure there is a fair bit left on the table.

Thanks,
Michael[/QUOTE]

Sword_of_the_Spirit

Weight: 2950 1/4 w/driver (approximate). I have past owners data for the weight, but that was before removing some serious lbs. After using the 993 weight reduction thread, Ive come to that figure and eerring on the heavy side.
HP: Never dyno'd as its new to me. Id say stock output to wheels (maybe conservative, but....)

I have a few friends in the Monterey area that will be able to confirm both, but I've not made it that far yet. Is it important, sure is. Hopefully that doesn't throw it all to the wind.....

Nice setup btw Martin. Read your post many times on your 993.

Thanks for the data Martin. It was run both days on 13CW.

Bill Verburg

sounds like you bought Paddy's car, If so congratulations

Martin S.

If so there us a Buttonwillow event with SpeedVentures, December 17 and 18. It is HPDE, with 4 levels, from beginner to advanced. I am going with my buddy Todd. He has a track ready 98 Carrera S.

There is a dyno on the campus, The 7's Racing. About $100 for 3 pulls.

Sword_of_the_Spirit

Yes it is Martin. I live in Monterey. All this was gathered over a two day private event on the 7/8th running 13CW.

Sounds like fun. As for putting into a POC class, it will be a decision I'll have to look at. Besides the odd stone chip, it's a pretty tight knick.

Martin S.

Consider the Speed Ventures event...you and my pal Todd can run together....I'll be right be behind, more or less The event is being put on by SpeedVentures. I have run wit them many times....looking forward to 2 days at Buttonwillow. The Holiday Inn Select in Bakersfield is the place to stay. about 40 minutes from the track...clean and has food and drink.

Sword_of_the_Spirit

I'll have to take a look at my schedule and see if it fits. Seems fun otherwise. How many cars show in each group?

Martin S.

15 to 30 in a group...probably closer to 15 because of the impending holidays. Below is a cc of a msg to a fellow POC guy attending, Todd. I'll post a video of Todd chasing me around Buttonwillow CCW with Star Mazda. The time I mentioned earlier were for cars running Race Track Configuration #1, with Star Mazda + POC doesn't use the Bypass...so that adds to the time, at least a second or two.

I am running Green (Open Passing) so I don't have to keep checking my mirrors for race cars, low and hard to see. My ego will allow me to run in Green. RED could be for you, or, you could start in Green and move to Red.


Red $169.00 a day
For ADVANCED drivers comfortable with open passing and race-like conditions.
Green $169.00 a day
For Advanced and High Intermediate Drivers comfortable with open passing and race-like conditions.

Garages are probably available, rent directly from the track.

Martin S.

Mine is the white 993 that Todd is chasing...I was in the zone that day, especially on he start, I took a little dive to the inside and picked up 2 places, kept them too.

In spite of me driving my *** off, I still got beat in GT5. The key to winning in this class, at the shorter tracks, is be as light as possible and have jut the right amount of HP to make the GT class cut, and torque galore helps, and BTW, it helps to have a well maintained machine and be a damn good driver. I lay claim to the former, with the jury still out on the later.


Nov 2014....and compared to the track records for my class, I am slow. I was running about 2:11 Buttonwillow Race #1 configuration with the "A" section, counter clockwise. BTW I just watched the complete video, damn that was a great day.

Sword_of_the_Spirit

Thanks for the response Martin. I'll take a look it all and see if I can swing in December. I always appreciate putting names to faces. Especially ones you see more often on RL.

Good night

Martin S.

SpeedVentures...I'll let you know our garage #. Always good so meet someone else that has had the vision to make their 993 just how they want it. I am one (1) project short, a 3.8 RS motor

959fan

sounds like a lovely little ride. what is your race weight w/driver? whp estimate? with NT01 I'd say this should be a sub 2:00 car _easy_ in the hands of a capable driver.

Martin S.

Here is the dilemma. Various Clubs run various track configurations. PCA Runs Race #1, POC runs Race #1 with the "A-Section". The "A-Section" adds 2 to 3 seconds (an estimate) to your time.

So if you go to www.racemonitor.com you can search out Buttonwillow...look for PCA Buttonwillow Double Crown, a race being run this weekend. The really quick guys in full tilt race cars, such as Dan Aspesi are turning 1:48 to 1:50. These are fully developed race cars with very experienced drivers, Dan as an example. The race cars pretty much run slicks in the fastest classes.

Drivers with cars somewhat comparable to yours such as Jeff Schmidt (On slicks), are at 1:57 to 2:00 minutes a lap. Jeff's 993 car is fully developed and runs in GT4 class I believe. He is a solid and competent driver, just getting his feet wet again with racing.

If you show up with Nittos, you have already given up about 4 seconds a lap. My estimate of a 3,000 Lb 993 to include driver and 1/4 tank of gas, and assuming you are on your game that day, I would predict times in the 2:00 to 2:05 times running Race Configuration #1 with the Off Ramp, the PCA course. If you add in the "A" Section, the POC course, and 2 to 3 seconds to your time.

Hoosiers really help at Buttonwillow, especially around the "Riverside" section of the track. So sub-two minutes is doable, but easy? That depends.....

959fan

#1 is a lot longer than #13, even if both in CW config, I think it's a good 5 seconds or so. I'm not sure what the A section is... given his car spec, I'd say sub 2:00 easy.

yesterday one of our guys did 2:02 on a Street Miata, ~120 whp, ~2300 lbs w/driver, on street tires!

the op (Michael) said it was his first outing, so he can improve a great deal. if he was really comfortable with mid-ohio then he'll have no problem adapting to BW quickly and easily. BW is not hard at all, mostly mid-high speed corners. key is to have a setup that inspires driver confidence. it flows very well.

if i'm around i'll gladly ride along and give you my opinion. free of charge...

ps, back in 2005 my sohc vtec Honda Civic hatchback, 130 whp, 2150 lbs w/driver, #1CCW i do 2:15 all day long. Toyo RA1.