mglobe

Did someone here use 944 and reliable in the same sentence? Bwahahahahaha. Oh wait, we own a 944. SMH as they say. Actually I disagree with the comments about 944 and Miatas being to slow for DE's. I win every DE I drive in the Miata and also in the 944.

If you can find a 944 S2, it makes a great track car. It has the great handling of the '44 with some decent grunt. You won't be passing GT3's, but you won't be all that slow either.

JustinL

I can chime in on the 944 perspective. I tracked my 951S for a long time before deciding to go wheel to wheel. My 951S is a pretty heavily modified track rat and I was able to run times faster than all but the 996TT, 997TT, and GT3 cars. They can be very fast if modified, but there are big tradeoffs for street driving and they are old so reliability is an issue as well.

For wheel to wheel I use the S2 with a 968 engine. It's not as powerful, but easier to drive and probably a bit faster because it's lighter. The S2/968s are more reliable and easier to work on, but are almost always down on power to the 951s. I love my 951 because it has a lot of character and is surprisingly fast when the turbo hits, but I love my S2 because I can hammer out lap after lap consistently and focus on racing and not managing the car.

fatbillybob

As I age and think about winding down my career as a W2W racer while this year racing tracks around the country I have never seen, I also think about how to simplify. I think the answer is a streetable BMW M3 sedan with a rollcage. Interior stripped out keeping some stuff like A/C and windows . Seat would be integral with cage with slide in push/pin retained elements to simulate a full containment seat while on track. Rear seat gone to put 4 race tires. minimal tools and a big ice chest. Towbar elements on front to have the option of flat towing the BMW if I still have my Ram diesel then you don't need a trailer. Either setup flat towed or driven this will allow me to get to the track and do HPDE or Race. Level of competitiveness will depend on how much race prep is done. I could still race an SCCA national class or race NASA ST power to weight classes and race SCCA regional classes and be ok for any HPDE.

J richard

First, stop and go to a few track events and see what is prevelant in your area. Where are you located? Which groups? NASA? PCA? SCCA? vARA HSR? Nothing sucks worse than having a good car that you have no one to run with or in your class.

Is there a solid 911, 944 966 or box spec group in your area?

The 944 was fun for a while but the age of the platform is now taking its toll. Spec box is great IF you have the field to run with, same for 911 & 996....

Im a Pcar fanatic but for a number of reasons there are other maque to run: Mazda, BMW or even radical or spec racer ford. All depends on the ability to find good consistent events and people of like minded competition....

chrisc

The paradigm has shifted. The best option for a streetable DE car is a C6 ZO6. Replacement engines are relatively cheap plus the performance puts you at the top of the DE folks.

LuigiVampa

Weighing back in - I DEed my 1987 944T pictured below for a bunch of years. My region is Porsche only (no comments from the peanut gallery!) and there are tons of high end cars.

I was always pretty quick with my 944 in my run group. The car was still streetable and had a half cage, race seats, harnesses, race suspension, stripped interior, chip, etc. It was an awesome DE car. I never felt underpowered except on the straights. Most people respected that fact and if I was faster in the turns they would not try to pass. There is still a very robust 944 class in racing.

That being said, if I had to start over again I would have just bought a spec skirtster, I mean Boxster. There is a big spec boxster class and I am a little jealous when I am running all alone in "I" class. At least at the upcoming race at the Glen there appears to be four of us.

Spec boxster seems to be the way to go. You just need to get your hairdressers license in addition to your PCA race license.

fatbillybob

But there is no good way to get your race tires to the track. If you tow a mini tire trailer you get dinged for 55mph in cali for example. The roof can take 400lbs of tire. You can't hang 400lbs off the rear bumper either I tried that in my early days. That means dicey travel on expensive DOT-R's or 200 TW tires who's grip is marginal.

mrbill_fl

Porsche already makes the best street / track car. its the GT3
if you can only have 1 car, and have no storage for trailers, its not a bad compromise at all.
resale is pretty solid too.

RS America would be on my short list too.

Matt Lane

The RS America is not a track car. An astronomically expensive (nice) 964, but that's about it.

M

johneecatt

I'm doing what you're talking about. Wanted a 911 that I could drive to the track. So we found a 996 roller with an IMS failure. Got it cheap, and rebuilt the engine (with deep sump, etc). Put in a good suspension and a half cage. It's an 'in the works' project.

I'd been driving a new 981 Cayman S - and I loved it! But it tears up a car, and I wanted to keep my 'date car' looking nice. 996 with a fresh build...like I want...seemed like a no-brainer. Like Mad Max - speed cost money.....how fast do you want to go? With a project car, that I like driving around - and can go deeper as I desire and get faster (it's a lot different than the Cayman...) - I can do that.

I've got an awesome 'date car' and a cool hot rod that is tons of fun to track!

mooty

if you want a BSR, a friend has a fresh one for sale $30

at your budget, cayman is really not possible. the improvement you suggested is not priced correctly. once you start buying parts, you will know.

25k is really tough to do a dual purpose prosche track car, E36 more likely.
and this also assumes you are doing all the work yourself. if you farm out, no way in hell you can do 25000.

perhaps just pick up a boxster, add a roll bar, suspension then you can drive on street and also track. you do need to deal with IMS, tranny coolers etc. but overall the car is robust.

Frank 993 C4S

As others have said, decide on your end game and work backwards from there. A caged car is no longer safe on the street so you'll need a trailer too.

Jonasjmac

Really good info! I already have a great street,date car, convertible in my 911T. Most of the work I would be farming out to a friend who has a local indie Porsche shop. I live a little over an hour from VIR so I imagine there are innumerable groups to run with. My original idea was to get a decent 996 platform and start mostly stock, with street tires and gradually mod it as my skills advanced. Seems that most mods come into play only when using sticky tires. I am missing out on a chin event next week as my recent inspection showed my 911 engine and clutch we're tiring out due to track wear. And for the cost of new engine, I thought that money could go towards a track car. I really love how the car handles with no nannies, true drivers car and want to find something that preserves that feel, hence 944. But I would trade off something more dependable, ie not 30 years old. ive got some friends who have e30s, but it seems there is always something that needs to be fixed. Understanding that there is a cost to track, would doubling the track fund say $50k bring a dependable track car. Ive seen a couple of 996 gt3s , but typically in the 60k + range, but given the bulletproof engine, and the already there build, maybe that's the cheaper option in the long run?

TXE36

I'm going to take a different tack that some of the other responses, because I've sort of lived this since 2009.

I built an extremely good dual purpose car out of a 1999 BMW M3. Roll bar, 6 point belts, most of the interior, AC and all the creature comforts. PSS9 adjustable suspension (soft for the street, firm for the track). I installed Sparco Ergo seats with removable halos. These seats have unusually wide headrests which look "weird", but which offer a lot of unhelmeted head protection from the roll bar on the street - much more so than the stock seats or non-halo buckets. Car is fast enough if driven well in DEs to not spend the whole session pointing people by. A side benefit is the E36 M3 is practically a truck. With the rear seats out/folded down there is room in the back for 5 mounted tires plus gear.

An opportunity came up to buy another M3, this time a 1997 that was a full track car. It came with the trailer and the whole thing was affordable. The stumbling block was the tow vehicle and having to pay to store the trailer. Bit the bullet and bought a truck and found an open storage space for the trailer for $50/month. That car is in my avatar.

As the cliche goes, best money I ever spent. The truck is *very* handy to have for all sorts of non track things. The trailer has a lot of room with a big storage box on the front. The car is fully tracked prepped with a full cage and all sorts of other track parts. When I load up Friday night, the car is fully prepped for Saturday morning - it is good to go by simply backing it off the trailer and removing the windows. If it breaks, I can still get myself and the race car home w/o a tow.

I wouldn't go back to driving to the track if I could avoid it. I understand this solution doesn't work for some, as I had a place to park the truck and race car at home, but it's a thought.

If I had the money to track a p-car, it would likely be Spec Box. It would be a hard decision, because the E36 BMW is so damn cheap - it is almost Miata cheap. Part of my cost calculation considers if I have a really bad day at the track. For example, an E36 M3 money shift only has a ~$2000 price tag if one wrenches himself. I shutter to think what that costs in a p-car.

-Mike

GT3DE

GT3. Any year will do.