rs4_saloon

So I've been looking over my data from VIR and SP Main and noticed that I am getting better and better at braking late (making the straights longer) but at times my brake pressure is greater due to the fact that i'm braking later and in cases over braking due to the lateness of it. I've noticed sectors where I'm braking later but at turn in, i've slowed down too much due to 10/10ths braking and in other scenarios i'm braking earlier but not as harder and can carry more speed into the entry of the corner.

The goal should be fast in and fast out, but do you just spill through data to figure out where you are braking too hard and tweak as needed? I definitely want to make the straights as long as possible -- so early on the throttle on the corner prior to the straight and as late on the brakes as possible at the end of the straight but i don't want to compromise my cornering speed at the apex.

Any advice/tips?

rs4_saloon

http://jalopnik.com/5937814/why-the-...ique-is-a-myth

ProCoach

GSum is your friend.

The measure of the maximum use of the available grip is the final arbiter...

Veloce Raptor

In addition to pure data poring, realize what you said is true: often too late braking results in too hard braking and thus over braking. This is in part due to the overly aggressive brake impulse upsetting the chassis and screwing with the contact patches (particularly the rears). When we brake less dramatically, even if it is slightly sooner, the chassis and contact patches allow us to carry a LOT more speed through the corners . Oftentimes you need someone who knows this stuff to sit in your right seat, and not just look at a computer screen...

ProCoach

I don't know about that, but I do know that "overbraking" is often newly learned and well executed maximum braking g's extended TOO LONG, hence over slowing AND running rhe risk of upsetting the platform at turn in, thus delaying throttle application.

I divide braking execution into three separate and distinct "phases."

There is the initial application phase, which is measure by the "attack" or time it takes to reach maximum deceleration in g's.

There is the "sustain," or braking pressure that, as the rotating inertia of the wheels, tires and rotors slow, is maintained or lessened VERY SLIGHTLY to MAINTAIN the desired deceleration throughout the longer brake zones.

Finally, there is the release, which MUST occur close or past the initiation of steering input to "blend" the loading of the tires from fore/aft to lateral g's, seamlessly.

It's a complicated deal, but thanks to data, I don't need to be in the passenger seat to know how far off a driver is from ideal execution...

fstockcarrera

There are merits to both approaches. Your best coach is you. For me I have always worked on the entry speed and layered the rest of the corner from there on. I have for the better part of 20 years run nose to tail with the best driver in the identical car as me. You learn a lot. Instant data. Early apex corners benefit from a maximized entry speed and late apex corners require you to give up some entry speed to maximize exit. Find a coach and in the mean time a friend with the same car who is as fast or faster than you and run together. Both of the above coaches can get you there with different approaches and both have merits.

Bob

RallyeChris

If you are braking too late, compromising corner speed -thus exit speed - you are just wasting the next straight anyway. Better to have an optimal exit and maximize speed on the straight than make the straight 50 feet longer and lose time in the corners. You will make up far more time entering the straights well, than extending them a few feet with lower top speed.

RickBetterley

One of my favorite topics.
Pete, I have a lot of respect for you and your success, and look forward to personally learning from you one day, but I learn a LOT better when I get my coaching while I am driving. I suspect it has to do with experiencing the right feel of what I am being taught and being able to adjust on the fly.
The 'distance' between learning in the pits and then trying it on my own seems less effective than my learning while driving.
But you and your clients have huge success so it must be there are many ways to learn. And maybe it's best to use all of them.

tedean

All good points from the masters. The stopwatch never lies. Go out and push out 15 good laps, 5 using each method. Look at your section times of that turn and adjacent sections. Testing is hard work, but fun.

ProCoach

Yep. All good approaches! I like the comment that you can be your own best coach. The hunger and desire (as well as discipline to execute consistently) must be there in order to progress. Also, I think there are a lot of folks who learn what things "feel like" using the calibrated butt of their in-car instructor.

Slow in, fast out is a proven technique, but fast in is the last frontier and separates the good from the great. Make a detailed, incremental plan and then EXECUTE!

Matt Romanowski

Plan. Do. Review. Rinse and Repeat!

Veloce Raptor

+1

THIS

kgorman

Using data I look at my min corner speeds and try to bring them up one corner at a time. I work backwards to the braking. I create a session plan in my head where each time I hit the corner I work on "a little less" braking.

If I am doing it right it tends to have the feel of carrying more speed at apex, and generally that means less braking. Sometimes hard shorter braking, others just softer. It depends.

Then I look at the data and see how I did. Now my brain should be calibrated for that speed/feeling in the corner and I go work on some other part of the onion peel.

I could be doing it all wrong tho

TXE36

COACHFIGHT!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. VR and Procoach discussions are always interesting. BTW, I've made a career out of seeking alternate approaches to problems. The more the merrier.

(Just don't shuffle steer ).

-Mike

rs4_saloon

thanks all. The other thing I believe is to break the track into segments such that I try to maximize the longest straight and make it longer over corners that lead to shorter straights. In doing so, some of the data where I thought was slower through a corner due to over braking shouldn't really be viewed as just that sector (that corner) but a sum of the straight prior to the corner, that corner and the straight that follows that corner.

...enough of the analyzing data...i need to get out there and just drive!