Matt Lane

Hoping this is not a contentious post, but I have been wondering about this for some time. The 996 GT3 is a GREAT track car. Pretty universally acclaimed as such, no debate really.

In my experience (just observation), they do seem to be spun/hit/damaged/wrecked at a far greater rate than any other model. I have personally seen or heard of probably a dozen cars damaged over the years just locally - not racing, just DE. They are not that common - and this represents a high percentage.

Is it the lack of nannies?
If so, why aren't the older cars wrecked as frequently - less performance means less trouble?
Platform and handling "too" competent, lulling drivers into a false sense of security?
Inherent hair-trigger dynamics catching people out?
Too much car, not enough drover?

Interested in opinions - both from you that have tracked 996 GT3's or have related observations.

Best,

Matt

winders

It's people driving over their heads....they run out of skill.

Cory M

+1

faster car = bigger consequences when you run out of talent

seems many buy the GT3 and then decide to go drive on a racetrack, not the other way around

jdistefa

Hi Matt.

All of the above plus IMHO the occasional 6-Gt3 driver often still has the factory rear toe arms - these allow small dynamic toe changes +/- bump steer (depending on ride height) which bite the unsuspecting driver in the ***. Aftermarket heim jointed rear toe control arms along with careful attention to ride height and alignment setup are key.

cello

How far back are you going? A decent amount of early wrecks were before people and race shops realized the rear toe would change on the fly if not locked down. So that wouldn't be the drover per se... If recent, then I agree with the above. It is not a hard car to drive in general. But it can be a hard car to drive near the limit, consistently, being fairly powerful and fairly heavy... Add all the aftermarket stuff (shock/spring/bars/etc) the cars now have, edgier tires, and relative lack of skill, and.... But what do I know: I just try to survive, not win, my DEs, lol.

Edit - looks like Matt and I cross-posted

kurtkrum

All of these are true - but the car gained this reputation in the early days where a few issues related to suspension were surprising people.

A good set of tow links and an eccentric lockout eliminate any funny stuff in the rear end. Then the only issue is tightening the nut behind the wheel.

The car is pretty spectacular. Just need to tweak a few things.

kurtkrum

3 posts on the same thing at one time...go figure!

JGB

Well I must confess this describes me. I started out tracking a 993 last year. Sold it because it was to pretty to turn into a track rat. Was planning on something "momentum" like but stumbled across a GT3 I could afford, honestly wasn't planning on jumping into the deep end like that. MOST of the time I'm finding the GT3 is actually easier to drive than the 993, but when it goes wrong it happens at much higher speeds. Touch wood I've gotten through this first year with no damage to me or the car. I've learned from both episodes and I'm planning on a much quieter second season.

My car has had all the rear suspension dealt with.

Jim

mehoff

The problem is a malfunction in the left seat.

Track time and instruction are the universal fix.

Frank 993 C4S

... which is not unique to the GT3 but so true.

ProCoach

Yep. I don't think this issue is 996 GT3 specific, other than the majority of folks that have had incidents in these cars did NOT "build up slowly," but instead, jumped in the deep end, with predictible results...

That and a sensible, incremental approach makes ALL the difference...

Yep. +1,000,000

kgorman

I agree, lots of crumpled GT3's. NorCal had/has lots of them, and I can remember at least two crashing in turn 8 at Sears.

I was scared for years to drive one. After DEing for a 8 years and racing PCA and NASA for. 4 I still respect the hell out of it. It's an amazing drivers car, and I am still mostly drover. I can totally see how people wad it up. I suck *** at driving and I know I can run out of talent quick.

H2R with Veloce Raptor in the car in the rain was especially scary, but one hell of a learning experience. If you don't know it's super bumpy right now. Yeah bumps in the rain.. I got to my dry time (or close) that day in the wet. But maybe pee peed some. Had a sweet *** spin in 2. It's a damn rewarding yet serious piece of kit.

Yeah also a good point about setup. It's setup 'picky' for sure.

ProCoach

I can remember this line of posting immediately after the E36 M3 came out... We lost a LOT of those in the first few years.

Errsomeone

Peter,

Yup, I remember "the e36 M3 problem" well as it use to come up in nearly every instructors meeting for years. And being honest, it happened to me... not on track, not "playing", and actually not fast, but unfortunately the car was a total loss.

While I certainly agree with others about running out skill at high rates of speed as others have noted, BMW used rubber (presume still do?) in the rear suspension, in particular massive rubber rear subframe mounts with potential to create a rubber band effect in E36s that could release very quickly after an initial counter steer. In one of my E36s you could even feel it taking a different set during fast sweepers with the weight transfer. My race car got solid mounts with great feel and all was incredibly predictable.

Returning to Porsche content, I appreciate this question being asked as I have considered the 6GT3 as a potential track car or building a 996 and still recall another who wrote off a 6GT3 with little explanation. After just having my 997 on track, these modern cars are amazingly capable, in an almost concerning way. It is very easy to surpass a drivers capabilities.

txhokie4life

That's why I prefer to drive a car a little lower on the totem pole.
Driving the crap out of something that's 80% of what the big boys bring on track
means my errors might be done at the car limits, but occasionally I still have some room to save me ****....
Unfortunately, I tend to be one of those stubborn learners that learns more by mistakes than success.
I suspect a GT3 for me would be a high-speed coffin.

M