Manifold

I've been using Harry's Lap Timer for a while, and it's better than nothing, though I haven't mounted it to capture video.

I could try to do that, but I'm thinking instead that it's time to move to a "real" data acquisition system which ideally provides the usual data (speed, g-forces, revs, brake pressure, throttle, gear, etc.) plus video both from the driver's eye perspective as well as video of the driver showing steering, shifting, and maybe even some sense of what the feet are doing.

I've done some research and it seems that there are a lot of systems out there, so I'm somewhat overwhelmed and not at all clear on which to choose. On one hand, I do want a good amount of data so that I can see what I'm doing and what to focus working on to improve. But on the other hand, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to using electronic gadgets, so ease of use is a high priority (won't be a surprise that I'm a fan of Apple products). I don't have a specific budget in mind and will pay what it takes to get the right system, but of course I don't want to waste money by spending more than necessary either.

The Smarty Cam looks like it could be a good choice (though it appears have only one camera, so no view of the driver?), but I'd appreciate recommendations. Thanks!

MikeJim

Peter Krause is all over this. peter@peterkrause.net

He recommends an AIM Solo DL linked to a Smartycam. The whole deal, set up and ready to go for about $2K. http://www.aim-sportline.com/pages/solo/index.htm

mdrums

Go over to the 997gt3 forum and they are all switching to V-Box and some of us use Race Keeper.

amso3

Hi Mike

I saw you at Vortex a few days ago. I did the data systems for Kevin, Tom and Christian. I'll PM my cell number. Give me a call

ProCoach

Fantastic!

With more and more people looking for clear, cogent and objective feedback that is ready for viewing 60-90 seconds after you get out of the car, your desire is intersecting with the availability of affordable, effective and easy to use equipment, RIGHT NOW.

In order, more than the usual data (speed, gear, revs, g-forces, plus optional brake pressure and more importantly, throttle pedal position) is usually useful only to tuners and race engineers.

You can get a whole lot more information, but what you want is the essence of what it takes to go faster, packaged so that you can assimilate and digest it easily and quickly between runs.

There ARE a lot of systems out there, and many of us in the industry were relieved that at the Performance Racing Industry trade show this year, there were FEWER new offerings of this type of equipment for the first time in a long time.

Some of this is due to what I perceive to a split between driver optimization data and video equipment and engine and ECU tuning and optimization data recording equipment (the "on-board dyno" recorders).

This is good, because nearly every driver I work with or sell equipment to is looking for the facts about their driving, not the lamda, logging of eeror codes or cam timing status of their engine. This also allows the driver optimization branch of equipment to be better suited for what YOU (the OP) want.

My business is ENTIRELY centered on ease of use for the track-day, club or historic racing driver. Period. That is why I have sifted through (and continue to study intently) ALL of the various options (including legacy offerings) to pick the four or five best options for my target market.

It's also why I sell SIX different brands of equipment that do just this.

Traqmate/GoPro (soon to add RePlay HD) combinations
AiM Solo DL/SmartyCam GP combinations
Video VBOX Lite multi camera, one-box solution
Race-Keeper SE and HE multi camera, one-box solutions
Race Technology DL-1/Video4 combined one-box solutions and now:
MoTeC EDL/Mini Dash/HD-VCS combinations (hey, the sky is the limit! )

So do I have a favorite?

No. They ALL measure the same forces and actions, within more than acceptable measuring accuracy, they just operate and display that information differently. They also have varying ways of comparing two laps or two drivers with each other. For some, that's important.

I believe each driver, each application has different requirements, different levels of experience and interest in the interface and depth of harvesting of the information. That's why I talk, educate and follow through with everyone that buys equipment from me.

The last significant purchase option decision can be based on "what do your friends use?" All over the country (and within regions), there are pockets of guys (witness the Florida mancation, aero-beetle mafia! ) that buy the same systems together so that they can compare stuff, all kinds of stuff!



I do like that combination very much because of the excellent integration of ALL the extraordinary information gathered by sensors ALREADY installed in the cars POST-2006 and even more, POST-2009. That said, the learning curve of the software is steep. Balancing that is that the training resources are very good and getting better all the time, thanks to the efforts of the US importer, AiM Sports.

That's not quite true. Small groups of guys that travel and track together often get several units among each other at a time, but that's true with each of the offerings that I stock and sell.

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but after frustration with the flimsy hardware (connections and cables) of the Traqmate, TRAKCAR was initially considering the Solo DL/SC combo but wasn't sold on the ease of use.

After working with a coach who used it and looking over Grady's shoulder, he opted for the purchase of a Video VBOX Lite from me, along with Izzone. Perhaps Erik and Anton will get one, too.

I have sold more Video VBOX's than anyone else in the country over the last fifteen months (I had dinner with the US distributor principal night before last), so I know what I'm talking about.

Is it the best system out there? It was for these guys, after their careful review of what was important to THEM.

I also sold two Race-Keeper World Challenge (mandated) packages to a guy on the plane home last night. I also run one (along with a TM, AiM SmartyCam GP and Video VBOX Lite) in my own race car to bolster my knowledge and build my experience base using these products in the real world.

In the end, you pay your money and take your choice.

There is no "best" and there are no "bad" choices among these vetted, tested and terrific tech tools...

Feel free to call or PM me.

Gary R.

Peter - for an AIM MXL user with a SmartyCam, is AIM ever going to integrate the video into the data (for viewing)? Do you think it will ever be possible to add a second SC to the system to give a PiP view? I use a second camera now, which of course I can manually do a PiP view with software but having it part os the data analysis would be much better.

ProCoach

Gary, that option (adding another window in RS2 to pick up the associated video) exists now but I haven't been able to make it work. I'm working on getting an answer to that now, because that's a reason why people buy Traqmate and VideoVBOX over the AiM solutions.

Two camera? Perhaps, but I noticed that the new SmartyCam HD has a 105 degree FOV, up from 84 degrees in the old ones, sufficient to take in everything you need to see!

Gary R.

I'll look at the option in RS2, last I read they were going to offer that in "the near future"... if I get it to work i'll let you know!

Matt Romanowski

No to add more words, but I think Peter hit the nail on the head. Horses for courses. I was pretty impressed with the multi camera systems that I saw at Race Keeper today.

ProCoach

While I love my buddy, Steve Hoelscher, who is the MAN at Race-Keeper (under Angus, who started and owns the company), I still have reservations about the video and audio quality of the SE and HE. Also, their "HD Export" feature is merely the real-time export of two SD streams in one frame... Not quite the straight scoop.

I sold a Race-Keeper system to another RL'er this past summer, installed it and worked with him over the weekend and we both had some difficulty obtaining a decent CAN sample rate through several different optional hookups (on the R-K side, not the vehicle side). For that reason along with the sub-par video and audio, I really recommend R-K only to the people that have to have it because their friends do or that they race in World Challenge.

Now, one of the great things about Race-Keeper is that if you have a bunch of legacy Traqmate data, there is an export feature in Traqmate that allows you to put your Traqmate session files in a format that can be imported and compared in R-K's Comparo software against new R-K data. Really cool and a good upgrade path if your have prior Traqmate information that you want to keep for comparison. Obviously, data only, no video from the Traqmate can be imported.

fatbillybob

ProCoach,

What is the best set-up for the dumb clients, you know the ones who's skills are best for pushing one button on a manual stopwatch?

Manifold

Yes, that's probably more what I'm looking for! Simpler the better.

ProCoach

Hahaha! There are two kinds (maybe three) of data/video combination methods.

1) Traqmate and GoPro HD (RePlay HD soon). The video and data files are separately generated and downloaded to your computer. You use TraqStudio software to first open the data file, then select the video file that goes with it. A new window pops up and it is the video that goes with the data and is synced to the data. You then press another button and it overlays the information (speed, g-loads, lap times, track map) on top of that video showing in the window.

To turn ALL of it (data and camera) on and off, you use the Traqmate dash power button. You need to press it again to start it after the power is on. It begins recording when you go out on track. Then, you need to stop it recording, then push and hold to shut it off.

2) Video VBOX and AiM SmartyCam records information (speed, g-loadings, lap times, track map) over and on top of the video real-time during the session. The upside is that both begin recording when power is applied, g-loading triggers are exceeded or they sense RPM. No driver input required, period. No chance of "I forgot to hit the button" and losing the DE Cup Lap of the Gods! <grin>

The downside is that the overlay and information you want on the screen HAS to be configured and setup beforehand. If you forget or don't do it, you have dead tachs, dead TPS (throttle position sensors) and brake indicators if those things aren't hooked up or not configured properly in VVBox Setup or SmartyManager.

A way to prevent that from happening is to load a generic "scene" or background which shows only speed, lap times, friction circle and a track map. Some prep time and learning how to set up the unit in advance is required, but these require less time screwing around with them at the track. Both of those units generate data files as well as a video file you can just click on and play, although the SmartyCam requires an external logger to get more than g's and speeds. You can use the data file to dig deeper and see what was going on in an x-y graph or scatter plot kind of way if you want to see more or do "advanced driver diagnostics."

Put it this way. My clients ALWAYS want to see the "intelligent video" (information overlaid over the video, ready to play when they get in RIGHT AWAY) and I want to see the "squiggly lines."

3) Then, there's the hybrid combination of the Race-Keeper, which generates three files. A raw video file, similar to the old ChaseCam PDR-100 in quality, an index file and a data file.

The Race-Keeper Comparo software, like the Video VBOX Circuit Tools, combines the files automatically (and synchronized automatically) when they play in the window, but like TraqStudio you must turn on, turn off gauges, bar graphs, digital readouts of mph and other attributes, after the fact.

The Race-Keeper is automatically triggered to start and stop with no user input, just like the VVBOX and AiM. Like the AiM, the g-force accelerometers need to be calibrated before you go out. The Traqmate must be mounted level.

In answer to FBB and the OP (Manifold) question, the MAJOR reason why I really like the Video VBOX and the Solo DL or EVO/SmartyCam combo for folks is that they don't need to push any buttons to start/stop or take more than a step or two to download and play their "intelligent video."

For software ease, I still love Traqmate...

Matt Romanowski

Great info Peter!

cello

+1