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Old 05-08-2011, 10:50 PM   #61
Veloce Raptor
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Many thanks, Tom! Sure, let's discuss offline. VIR PCA is in late June, I recall. That may be very doable...

Cannon, one simple thing that seems to work well in heavy AWD 911 turbo cars is some light trailbraking (remember, you have extra weight in the nose of these, so unless you overdo it, light trailbraking really helps the front tires to bite better than the prodigious understeer they usually exhibit) and later apexing, to extend the straights & get on full power. In addition, I have fojnd (with admittedly limited 911TT AWD experience) that the rear bias of the AWD system makes fast sweepers very balanced & predictable, as long as you have positive throttle, since the small amouunt of front drive helps pull the car through & again reduces understeer somewhat. To me, the biggest challenges of 911TT's are their weight, which means they dont' brake as well as you'd like, and they really push in slow corners.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:01 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
First, my hope was that other drivers and coaches would respond. Some have, and I'd love to hear from others.

<snip>

Practice session intimidation? I guess I am not sure what that is, so I am not qualified to answer.

<snip>

Psych warfare? Absolutely. Espercially useful in the wet IMO. Be the guy who walks around talking about how you LOVE racing in rain.
I can't stand it. I'm here at the Glen with Charles and Seth and I am CERTAIN I know what practice session intimidation is all about...

The first, fundamental idea of practice for any racer worth their salt is to post a time as high on the sheet as possible. THAT is the first order of business, period. Then, everyone else knows they are racing for second...

I make SURE my car is ready and that I AM READY. I go to the grid EARLY and get UP FRONT. I do a slow out lap and then I HAMMER it. I want to pass every one I can, period.

I have spent a lot of time on the top line of that sheet, and with good result. It's won me a ton of races, even though I didn't do the fastest lap. The fact that people KNOW I'm capable of that, even when they are not, has helped me.

The second idea of practice "intimidation" is to make SURE that everyone in the race group KNOWS you're a FAST GUY. For example, I want people in my group to know that if a black car with red numbers accompanied with a white outline is behind them, HE'S GOING TO PASS.

I want people who might be quicker than me to have to THINK when they see me in the mirror. Not that I'm a loose cannon, not that I'm not reliable, consistent, predictable or even safe, but that I AM GOING TO PASS. I want them to HESITATE, then I am going to POUNCE.

I don't even want to talk about the rain... I really DO enjoy it!
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:01 AM   #63
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@Lolaman (aka, Peter): I got a bit nervous and sweaty and felt my right foot twitch and lift just *reading* your post...whew!
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:25 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
where did i hear this before.


From me, Larry Herman, Chris Cervelli, BobT, etc etc etc.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:09 PM   #65
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Dave and Lolaman, thanks for the input on the Glen and practice intimidations techniques!
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:50 PM   #66
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What Peter says is true. Last year I helped a racer in another race class qualify with me. Our plan was to post a fast time in one lap. I held us back picked an opening and let him know with a hand signal when the game was on. We each posted one hot lap and gridded P1in our classes with only a couple of unlimited cars in front of us. When the time sheets were posted you can imagine the reaction from guys who ran 15 laps and were still 2 secs off the pace and we each ran only one lap.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:59 PM   #67
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I guess I am not certain the value of that. If they're 2 seconds slower, what exactly are you proving in practice?
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:48 PM   #68
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That was for qualifying so okay your correct. I sleep in practice and just prowl to follow a competitor for the entire session to see his turn references and always turn in earlier than him/her.

In PCA it's different because they use each practice to sort a "pre-grid" for each session. The intention is to start you out with fast/faster cars. You want to post at least one fast lap so you can keep tabs on what the competition is doing by gridding with them.
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:42 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
Personally, I can't answer that w/o seeing the turn. You may be correct about a tighter line. However, you may also be able to align the car to extend your brake zone past the 1st apex, and have the car's attitude pre-positioned to make the 2nd, more difficult apex easier, which would allow a lot more entry speed & less real estate with the steering at high angles.
I've attached a video from youtube *not my car and I'm not the driver* but it give a good look at the area I'm concerned about. The double apex corner is between the times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GY9Oo6aFo8

43 second to 53 seconds

and then again from 2:55 to 3:55

I'm trying to see if I should track out before the 2nd apex where you have to slow down or take it tighter. Am I losing time by tracking out or losing time by cutting it tighter for the short shoot coming up ahead>
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:46 AM   #70
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I have not (yet) driven that track. However, from the video, it seems to me that the way you're approaching it now may be best. Why? Well, for one thing, this is an entry speed corner complex IMO. They way you're doint it now, you maintain a constant steering arc until you have to turn in slightly tighter for the 2nd apex. This means the car is set and very balanced. It is driving itself. And usually our cars know where to go, as long as we give them a bit of adult supervision to get there.

If you let the car go farther left, it would be pointed away from the 2nd corner, and you'd have to crank the wheel more in order to make the 2nd apex. This would kill more entry speed & introduce a lot more instability into the chassis, possibly even leading to a spin. And why would you want the car's entry attitude pointted farther away from that 2nd apex? We need to do everything we can to help our cars work better in corners...
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:18 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkerrmd View Post
cant wait to hear this one!


I finally went RWD with a LSD for the track. If you really track alot this gives you the ability to trail brake and throttle steer and gets rid of a ton of understeer......keep trackn that TT!!

And whatever Dave says will help!!
Just noticed this thread, hope Dave and others dont mind me chiming in.

I have spent a decent amount of time coaching/tuning in a relatively high (450 wheel hp) 993 turbo. The car had a lot of corner exit understeer with 4wd. Was fairly stable on entry but a little inconsistent mid corner. The 4wd was a little too simple of a system to really work well on the track. We disconnected the coupler and have been running in 2wd and the car is faster on track. It is more balanced as a whole and more "lively" and fun to drive. I have also spent time in a hi-hp 996 turbo that was very similiar. Its primary problem though was the stock rear suspension links/subframe bushings. The rear of the car would take a very weird "set" on exit and was not very confidence inspiring to roll into the power hard enough, early enough to really put down the super fast times.

To adjust for the corner exit push on both 4wd turbo cars I would turn in slightly later to square off the corner exit so I could focus on a slightly straighter line.

I also tracked a mitsu evo a few times. That car was so front heavy it simply pushed everywhere. I was LFB to try to transfer power away from the inside front tire. Nothing really worked. It felt like a bad front wheel drive car in long corners. It was ok in short "in and out" conventional corners but I really didn't enjoy it much on track.

I have never found the lag to be bad enough on a porsche turbo to really cause a problem on track. (I have driven modded 993/996 turbo, 996 gt2, 993 gt2 factory race cars, 935, 944 turbo, 944 turbo GT race car) If you are in the right gear you should not have a huge lag in torque. You definately need to roll into the power smoothly in a big hp car but it shouldn't feel like an on/off switch. Try not to overcompensate too much by giving it too much gas before the power builds which might cause the power to "overshoot" what you are expecting and have to let back off. Once the power builds, try to maintain a consistent throttle and roll it down to full. One of the most challenging turbo cars I have driven is a single turbo supra on street tires. 600+ wheels hp on 4 year old tires. That was a little difficult but a lot of fun. Squeeze the power on....wait, wait, wait...huge hit, wheel spin, opposite lock, hold power down to drive the car to the exit..hang on down the straights and repeat every corner. Ha!

Sorry for the long post.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 9.5 Degrees View Post
I've attached a video from youtube *not my car and I'm not the driver* but it give a good look at the area I'm concerned about. The double apex corner is between the times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GY9Oo6aFo8

43 second to 53 seconds

and then again from 2:55 to 3:55

I'm trying to see if I should track out before the 2nd apex where you have to slow down or take it tighter. Am I losing time by tracking out or losing time by cutting it tighter for the short shoot coming up ahead>
I would try giving up the first corner to focus on a better line coming out of the second. The straight after the second corner seems fairly long so a better run out by giving up the entry on the first right might net a better lap time. Maybe not apex the first turn at all so there is not that "v" shaped change in the cars attitude when trying to put power down for the 2nd turn. Round out the entrance of T1 to make sure the car is set all the way on the outside and the weight transfer isn't as big of a shift when setting up for the run through t2. Might not work but I would try it and see.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:36 AM   #73
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Quote:
Be the guy who walks around talking about how you LOVE racing in rain.
Maybe try the opposite. Talk about how bad it is going to be, how we shouldnt be out there, its going to be terrible..... The other guys might think, "man if HE is going to have a hard time, how am I going to do!?"
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:21 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
Require? No. I recommend they do, though, Kevin. And in fact I carry a small notebook with me whenever I ride right seat with them, so I make a bunch of notes myself (usually on the straightaways) in my pig latin shorthand.
+

I'm no coach or instructor. But I do race.
Whenever I get the opportunity, I walk/bike/scooter a lap of the track and bring my notebook. Not surprisingly, I often meet the competition doing the same.

If you have a coach taking notes for you. Be grateful!
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:38 PM   #75
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Cory and Magnus...good stuff, thanks for contributing!
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