Tony356993

For years a bunch of guys have been buying VP MS 109 fuel for tracks that do not have access to race fuel (i.e. Pocono).

Houston we have a problem. According to VP, the fuel "should" be fine for up to a year if stored correctly. Here is the problem - the 55 gallon drums are not date coded, bar coded, have mfr dates, or expiration dates!! Ouch!

2000 miles after a complete rebuild, my motor is once again apart with a varnishy/tar substance over every moving part. We have taken fuel samples from the empty drums and from the gas tank of 2 affected cars and are sending them to an independent lab to be tested as well as to VP to be tested.

To date VP has been cooperating but yours truely is sitting on a very large repair bill to clean everything and replace the broken parts - and all of this is in the middle of the track season here in Pa. I'm working with the shop to document and photograph all of the parts and with an attorney should I find out from the lab(s) that is not gas that was in my gas tank and not gas that was in the drums. As a consumer I believed I was getting a good product that had been currently & correctly manufactured, stored properly & safe for my car. VP has no time stamping protocol. The regional distributor close to the track has no time or date stamp protocol. God only know how old that "gas" was and how it had been stored.


My point is that you should document when each and every drum of fuel has been produced, know how it has been stored & and be sure the drum has never been opened.............or BUY PUMP GAS! You might go a bit slower but it will be cheaper in the long run.

If anyone has had a problem with VP fuel like this or want to do some pro bono work , please give me a PM.

38D

Don't you think it would have been a better idea to wait until you got the lab results back before posting this?

Tony356993

Colin,

I respect your comments.

I have been dealing with this situation for about 6 weeks and the more facts I gather, the more it looks like we have found the what went wrong. Could the shop have made in error last during the last rebuild? Sure. Could someone have put something in my tank? And the tank of the other car? Sure.

I do not have all the facts. It could be weeks for the test results to come back.

I want to let folks know that just because the drum is sealed doesn't make the fuel in the drum safe to use.

Sorry if I upset anyone.

Gary R.

I agree with Colin, lots of unsubstantiated accusations. Maybe wait until your results come back before making such a public statement?

ltc

That's interesting.

My son runs VP MS93 (Rotax spec fuel, unleaded) or MS98L (leaded) in his kart.
I buy it in 5 gallon and/or 30 gallon pails from the track or the NE VP distributor.

I've never heard of anyone at the track having a problem, even with fuel from last season's racing (still sealed), as long as it's stored in a semi controlled environment.
I can post this on ekartingnews and see if any of the moderators or users have ever had similar issues to what you described.

Larry Herman

To help coroborate what Tony has said, I have seen and smelled the "fuel" that was taken from his tank. It smells nothing like race fuel; more like paint thinner. I think that Tony was just saying to be careful about the fuel that you are buying in drums.

Tony356993

Results are in. Sorry I didn't wait to post until now.

According to an Allstate's automotive forensic engineer and the lab in California, the fuel samples taken from my gas tank do NOT match the composition from the MSCS data sheet for VP Race Fuels MS 109 fuel.

Either the fuel was bad when produced or went bad (and changed the chemical composition drastically) someone in the supply chain.

Allstate (street insurance) denied claim and Snelling (track insurance) will likely deny the claim. Both companies would have covered vandalism but this was cleary a case of a sealed drum no longer containing what I thought I was putting in my tank.

Be careful folks. Make sure that you purchase your VP fuel from an authorized dealer (like we did) and that you make certain that the fuel you are putting in your car was produced within the last 2-3 months. The "experts" @ VP's lab in Texas proclaim that the fuel should be good for years if stored correctly but it should be good for a minimum of 1 year. Don't take the risk - use fresh fuel.

VP fuels was very nice in the beginning until they found out that I drove to the local dealer and obtained samples from each of the 6 drums that were delivered to the track BEFORE VP sent a special truck to pick up the used drums.

Hopefully you can avoid a $10k repair bill. I would have been better off getting 93 octane from the local convenience store.

Anyone want to pick up a pro bono product liability case??

Chaos

Thanks

Phokaioglaukos

Sorry to hear the results, Tony. If Allstate tested the fluid in your car's tank, how do they know that it was the same as the fluid VP sold you? Did Allstate test your samples from the VP drums too?

Jerseybean

Why couldn't you file a small claims against the local company - I think in NJ you can file for 3k, it's not the 10k but it's something and you dont need a lawyer.

Tony356993

Chris,

I ran over 75 gallons of VP fuel at Pocono. I'm sure it is possible that there was some residual fuel in the tank from before the event but I have about 5 gallons from my tank and another participant in the event has 10 gallons that never went in his car from the pocono event. He still has the gas in containers.

I also have samples from the drums but they were not tested by Allstate. I have contacted some local testing facilities and the cost is prohibative for me to have them tested myself. Shipping the samples requires certified hazmat handlers and certified hazmat shipping.
Why couldn't you file a small claims against the local company - I think in NJ you can file for 3k, it's not the 10k but it's something and you dont need a lawyer.

Thanks for the info Bean. I have a member from the club going to take my case and file a claim against VP corporate and the local distributor in the Poconos. Somewhere along the way this fuel went bad. I'm happy now to have an F class car that runs fine on 93 pump gas. I've leanred my turbo lesson - the hard way.

chrisp

Was any of the fuel tested from a sealed container?

Phokaioglaukos

Tony, my question is how can Allstate be certain that your loss was not the result of vandalism if they did not test what was in the drums as well as what was in your car? They know that what was in your tank was bad, but they don't know if it was bad from VP or from a vnadal, do they?

Oddjob

No one likes to hear problems like this - when you pay extra for a product, you have certain expectations.

Had an issue with race gas sold at the gas station outside the local track. Claiming a 97-98 unleaded octane rating. Employees later told club members that it really wasnt unleaded, they had just mixed some left over 110 leaded with 92 pump gas, and called it high octane unleaded race gas. Of cource the station management denied that claim when asked if they would cover cat. converter and O2 sensor replacements. Ironically, they do not offer an unleaded race fuel now...




So what was the extent of the damage to the motor from the bad fuel?

Knock/detonation due to lower than advertized octane, causing pitting on the pistons, cracked rings, etc?

Varnishing from bad gas would be limited to the fuel delivery system, and localized around the injectors in the intake, intake ports in the head, and the backs of the intake valves. If the varnish/tar restricted fuel flow, it would drop fuel pressure and potentially cause the motor to run lean, burning valves and pistons?

Larry Herman

I saw the extent of the damage. The valve stems were so gunked up that the valves had to be tapped out of the heads. As you know, they should slide in and out easily. There was valve to piston contact as a result.