mark kibort

Im sure you all noticed that there was a Cup car, that was supposed to be " just like a cup car" as the anouncer said, that had some go fast stuff on it. (obviously slicks) . What was up with the cup car? was it a SpeedGT Motorsport upgraded Cup car?? my guess was yes. I see buckler all the time at sears point and laguna seca running at least 5 seconds faster than the modified speedGT motorsport upgraded porsches (ie 1:28 to 1:34s at laguna seca) Sure, they are on different tires, but usually the Toyo RA1s vs slicks are only a couple of seconds faster.

Buckler did bring out a couple of 2004 GT3 cars that ran 1:38.9 at Sears on slicks. (not motorsport upgraded, a stock cup car) this is only around 3 seconds off his GT3RS time at Sears (ie 1:36s)

Im thinking the GT3RS runs restrictors in 24hours of Daytona as it does in the ALMS series, and we all know the Cup cars dont run the restrictors, but also , dont have the individual throttle bodies.

There were two cup cars in the top 5 GT class cars at Daytona. wonder what the story was with all of them.

They said, the GT3RS has flares, but the wheel base was the same as a cup (find that hard to believe, but Ill check that out next club race) And, that the flares were only used to use a taller tire. (more broadcast BS too)

any thoughts??
curious!
MK

Premier Motorsp

The guys commentating the race did not have all their facts straight. Here is how I saw it:

The #44 GT3R(s?) that won GT looked pretty standard. It was quite a bit faster than the #74 Cup Car that came in 2nd in GT. After the #44 lost its back window, the two were more equal.

The #74 was running slicks, and they were likely the same size as the #44's tires. The GT3R however, does have flares and so the track is wider. The wheelbases are indeed the same.

The #74 did have the upgraded Cup engine, judging by its exhaust sound. Since Grand-Am only allows 8000rpms in GT, I would expect that the #44 and #74 cars both made about the same power.

Those late Cup cars are really fast, but they don't seem to any match for a full-blown GT3RS. I think that most of the #44 car's advantage was erased by the 8000 rpm limit and the fact that Daytona tends to favor low-drag cars.

Still though, the #44 did win, even with the rear window problem, while the #74 appeared to have a flawless run.

What is really interesting about this year's race is that the #44 and #74 and others would have beaten the all the DP cars soundly had the race run the full 24 hours. The DP car that won was overheating and running 20 seconds off its qualifying time after only 18 hours of running. The #2 DP that almost won broke its suspension after only 18 hours. Had that car raced in dry conditions, it seems likely the suspension would have failed much sooner.

The other striking thing about the race was watching Dale Jr. and Tony Stewart deal with those conditions. Those guys showed that they are true professional drivers and that they would be successful in anything they drove. I guess Tony Stewart has already showed that, and continues to. Watching him drive that DP around with broken suspension was awe-inspiring. He would have won if the LR wheel hadn't fallen off.

The current formula is a little sparse I think. There are only 3 engine configurations out there: flat six, inline six (Only 2 BMWS) and v8s. When I ran there in the late 90's there were 80 car fields and every conceivable engine type. I remember racing against an RX-7 while being passed by V12 Ferraris, Bugattis, V10 Vipers, Turbo Porsches, 7.0 liter Fords, you name it. I think the sport has lost something without the diversity.

pig4bill

NASCAR couldn't care less about diversity. If they had their way, Daytona would be all 'Murican v8's. It may well be that way in a couple years.

Rick F.

That will be the end of Road Racing as we know it.. It will also be the last time I go to Daytona to watch the race.

jerome951

I agree with Rick F.

I'm not going next year mostly due to the lack of diversity in the cars and the manipulation of the race.

Heck, I thought watching the older cars run in the 24 Minutes was more exciting, and they weren't even racing.

Even the Brumos/Rolex show car area was disappointing. Only 3 Loti, and none older than a few years (2 Elise's and a newer Esprit). :-(

James Achard

The New GT3-RS's have a sequential gearbox too. They cost about 100K more as well. I agree that the Grand am rules are very strange. The DP cars are SOOOO ugly. Too bad since they could be a nice looking car if they adjusted the rules a bit.

Cheers, James

M758

I had some questions when I noticed the 74 Cup car on GT pole vs the RS. I checked grand-am rules and here is what I found.


1) First the GT3 R and RS are allowed the 2004 GT3 RSR is not legal in Grand-am.

2) RS is run to "Prep 1" rules and Cup to "prep 2" rules
Basicly prep 2 allows more mods than prep 2. (really lots of little details)

3) GT3RS must run two 29.2 mm restrictors while GT3 cup run free

4) GT3 cup are allowed motorsport upgrade. I believe that is speedvision upgrade, but not the full RS motor. Wording is "As presented by Porsche with the engine update conversion kit"

5) GT3RS min weight is 2625 vs Cup at 2600. I believe the RS is normaly about 2450 lbs per last year and AMLS

6) Cup cars may upgrade wheels, tires, brakes and body work to RS specs. ABS must be removed.

7) RS is not allowed a sequential shift

8) Both are limited to 8000 RPM

So given these rules it seems that the RS was saddled with another 200 lbs or so and the cup cars were given more powerfull motors without restictors. Given their similar weight and more flexible prep of the cup car it does not seem that stange to have them close on the track.

mark kibort

I think we are breaking the code here!! Yes, the weight was somthing I didnt think about with the GT3RS compared to ALMS. As a note, the GT3RS always runs restrictors in ALMS, but i dont know the size. (probably the same)
INTERESTING, I found out that the second place GT cup car, was REALLY a GT3RS, but with the cup body mods (for aerodynamics) so, it was a true GT3RS, but with the narrower stance.

the others were the Speedvision motor upgraded versions, and they were really not that much slower, due to the weight .

question: were the speedvision upgraded cup cars running GT, 2003s or new 2004s??? ive heard that the 2004s were definitely faster, but had sequential shifting, which is not allowed for the Cup cars in SGS or GT.

since buckler and others have run at Sears Point( his home track), a GT3RS in 1:34s and has recently run a new 2004 cup car to a 1:38.9 in testing. I would say that the wider stance, lighter weight and the lack of the motorsport upgrade would be the difference.

either way, those cup cars were pretty amazing, if you saw the SGS cup cars on hoosiers running a best of 1:57 when the top GT3Rs on slicks were running 1:52s at Daytona!

MK

Ken T

I thought the announcer also mentioned that they had a different fuel cell size. True?

Ken

NicolasW

I think the cup car that Van Overbeek was driving was bumped to GT because of the larger fuel cell size, in addition to other enhancements which I know nothing about.

Greg A

The new GT3 RSR, not the RS, has a sequential gearbox. As stated previously, the RSR is not legal in Grand-Am.

AFAIK, the only GT3-RS that had a sequential was Alex Job's. And they only had that for the last few races of the 2003 season to develop it for the upcoming RSR.

Greg A

mark kibort

Actually, he (Announcer) didnt know that it was a TRUE GT3RS, but with cup car body mods. (for better aero, at the expense of track width),the others in the class, were Cup cars with the motorsport up grades and any other mods that would bring them up to GT3RS chassis standards, and would have to run smaller fuel cells to the rules.
Also, the 2004 GT3RSR is an RSR, there are no other flavors as far as I know. all will have sequential shifting in 2004 also I think.

MK

James Achard

That's what they like you to think anyway...It was around long before that....

Greg A

Ok, where?

Greg A

goplay

Yes, I believe a sequential shifter has been available for Cup cars for awhile now. I was speaking to a pro-racer in th UK about his spare Cup car motor and he mentioned how he had a sequential shifter for his Cup car. Not likely a Porsche factory shifter, but nonetheless, there is at least one team racing with a sequential shifter that is stout enough.