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CGT Traction control: ECU only or ECU + Brakes?

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Old 09-29-2016, 05:03 PM
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Johnb55
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Default CGT Traction control: ECU only or ECU + Brakes?

I would like to clarify my understanding of how the traction control works on the CGT. Specifically, does it just cut the engine output through the ECU to both wheels, or does it also apply rear brake to the spinning wheel(s)? I have a 997 GT2 that does apply brake individually (it also has stability control) and have found that it can wear the rear carbon pads and rotors quickly if driven aggressively with TC on. I tend to turn it off if I plan on being sporty. As I get more comfortable with my CGT I'm seeing the TC light illuminate more often but I don't want to excessively wear down my rear pads and rotors.

I suspect the answer is ECU only, but would like some confirmation.
Old 09-29-2016, 05:39 PM
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nuvolari612
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Originally Posted by Johnb55
I would like to clarify my understanding of how the traction control works on the CGT. Specifically, does it just cut the engine output through the ECU to both wheels, or does it also apply rear brake to the spinning wheel(s)? I have a 997 GT2 that does apply brake individually (it also has stability control) and have found that it can wear the rear carbon pads and rotors quickly if driven aggressively with TC on. I tend to turn it off if I plan on being sporty. As I get more comfortable with my CGT I'm seeing the TC light illuminate more often but I don't want to excessively wear down my rear pads and rotors.

I suspect the answer is ECU only, but would like some confirmation.
The design of the CGT equates to zero body roll - the whole thing was designed like an F1.

CGT offers no electronic stability-control system - my guess it acts much like a cheap mans differential.

You are a brave man suggest a place with lots of run off not on the street - watch Jay Leno CGT spin the car is balanced just needs room for rotations
Old 09-29-2016, 05:58 PM
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W8MM
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Originally Posted by Johnb55
I would like to clarify my understanding of how the traction control works on the CGT. Specifically, does it just cut the engine output through the ECU to both wheels, or does it also apply rear brake to the spinning wheel(s)? I have a 997 GT2 that does apply brake individually (it also has stability control) and have found that it can wear the rear carbon pads and rotors quickly if driven aggressively with TC on. I tend to turn it off if I plan on being sporty. As I get more comfortable with my CGT I'm seeing the TC light illuminate more often but I don't want to excessively wear down my rear pads and rotors.

I suspect the answer is ECU only, but would like some confirmation.
CGT traction control is by ECU/throttle-interruption, only. No system brake application.

I NEVER turned mine off, even using the softest setting of the rear anti-roll bar. YMMV.
Old 09-29-2016, 06:09 PM
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JasonAndreas
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Originally Posted by Johnb55
I suspect the answer is ECU only, but would like some confirmation.
From the Technik Introduction;

Originally Posted by Service Information
Traction control “TC”
So as to achieve the best traction during acceleration, the Carrera GT is fitted as standard with a “Traction Control” system.
The “TC” system comprises the components automatic brake differential (ABD
5.7), traction control (TC 5.7) and engine drag torque control (MSR).

ABD 5.7
During acceleration, in the event of the wheel on one side slipping, that wheel is braked by the ABD until stable driving conditions are reattained.
The application of brake pressure is achieved by the individual hydraulic valves
for each drive wheel, fitted in the ABS hydraulic block.
The component functions of the ABD 5.7 are implemented in the overall TC 5.7
system.

TC 5.7
The traction control system has the duty of preventing excessive wheelslip at the drive axle thus prevent lateral drift of the rear axle during acceleration. The TC function is active at all speeds when acceleration is applied.
If one (or both) wheels slip, the drive axle(s) for this (these) wheel(s) is braked
until the speed of the wheel falls to one at which the wheel does not slip, or both
wheels are braked down to a wheel speed level where slipping does not occur.
If because of prolonged TC applications the brake system threatens to overheat
then the electronic engine management system will reduce the engine torque
until the drive wheels reattain forward grip within the adhesive limit.
Carrera GT
4.33 / 2004

When traction control is active these interventions will be indicated by a flashing
yellow warning lamp in the multi-function instrument.
By engine torque reduction is meant the throttling back (reduction) of the engine
torque currently demanded by the gas pedal by a reduction in the mass of combustion
air admitted, which is achieved by closing the electronic throttle valve.
A further possibility for torque reduction is to reduce the efficiency of the engine
combustion, by retarding the ignition angle. From a thermal point of view there
are however strict limits to retarding the ignition angle, so that it may be used
only for a short period and for minor control interventions.

Engine drag torque control (MSR)
Within the TC function there exists also engine drag torque control. This may be
required for instance after changing down to a lower gear on slippery ground.
On changing down to a lower gear the resulting engine braking effect can be so
severe as to fracture the rear axle. MSR prevents this by calling for power
(giving gas) through the engine management system.
There is always the possibility that the Carrera GT driver may switch off the traction
control functions by pressing the button labelled “TC”. He is then reminded
of this by the display “TC off” in the multi-function instrument.
It is however inadvisable to switch off the TC functions. Doing so will in any case
not lead to better lap times on the race track.
Old 09-29-2016, 10:36 PM
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W8MM
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Thanks!
I stand corrected.
I still would not recommend turning off traction control unless wild yaw events are on your menu of fun.
Old 09-30-2016, 02:13 AM
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C.J. Ichiban
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Originally Posted by W8MM
Thanks! I stand corrected. I still would not recommend turning off traction control unless wild yaw events are on your menu of fun.

Wild yaw events and TC off at low/ medium speeds got me to be a much smoother driver eventually. I was lucky to live (2009) at a country club track for a few months and used to set up mini auto crosses for myself when it would rain or when nobody was around. Worked my way up to the limit of the car.
Old 09-30-2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
Wild yaw events and TC off at low/ medium speeds got me to be a much smoother driver eventually. I was lucky to live (2009) at a country club track for a few months and used to set up mini auto crosses for myself when it would rain or when nobody was around. Worked my way up to the limit of the car.
Yes, one can do that and good for you for your approach.

OTOH, as Bobby Rahal told me about his former CGT, "Those things oversteer like crazy!"
Old 09-30-2016, 11:56 AM
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Johnb55
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Thanks guys!
Hmmm...So TC does brake the rears.
I think I'll keep it on unless I'm in a place with plenty of runoff...
I'll also keep a close eye on the pad thickness.
Old 10-01-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by W8MM
Yes, one can do that and good for you for your approach. OTOH, as Bobby Rahal told me about his former CGT, "Those things oversteer like crazy!"
Oversteer is a lot more fun than under steer but just requires you to anticipate. It handles a lot more like a race car



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