Seriously considering a Singer?
07-24-2016, 09:49 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
08-11-2016, 04:32 PM
#47
Just a quick update...
I appreciate the comments and feedback that was posted here and still go back and forth a little bit. But leaning strongly towards a Singer.
Found a day a couple of weeks from now when I can get away to the west coast. Going to Singer in mid July for a visit. Looking forward to it. Wish I had more than an afternoon though because I know there are a couple of good resto shops around LA.
Any recommendations if I can squeeze out an hour or two extra?
I appreciate the comments and feedback that was posted here and still go back and forth a little bit. But leaning strongly towards a Singer.
Found a day a couple of weeks from now when I can get away to the west coast. Going to Singer in mid July for a visit. Looking forward to it. Wish I had more than an afternoon though because I know there are a couple of good resto shops around LA.
Any recommendations if I can squeeze out an hour or two extra?
FWIW, I would get the gulf blue RS....Singer looks like they are doing some really cool things, but it just seems like the type of thing you commission once you have owned every amazing factory Porsche that you desire...
If I had a CGT, RS, 911R, and 918 in the garage, I could see this being a fun toy. As it is, there are too many stock Porsches that I would still want before going after essentially a resto-mod.
Whatever you decide, enjoy it...can't go wrong.
08-11-2016, 11:52 PM
#48
And it's so damn expensive... I wish I could swing it, I think about Singers a lot. There is just no way for me to do 500 large on a car.
I'll have to channel my inner Taoism regarding Singer. You can enjoy something without possessing it.
I'll have to channel my inner Taoism regarding Singer. You can enjoy something without possessing it.
08-12-2016, 01:50 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Curious how your trip turned out...amazing? Underwhelmed?
FWIW, I would get the gulf blue RS....Singer looks like they are doing some really cool things, but it just seems like the type of thing you commission once you have owned every amazing factory Porsche that you desire...
If I had a CGT, RS, 911R, and 918 in the garage, I could see this being a fun toy. As it is, there are too many stock Porsches that I would still want before going after essentially a resto-mod.
Whatever you decide, enjoy it...can't go wrong.
FWIW, I would get the gulf blue RS....Singer looks like they are doing some really cool things, but it just seems like the type of thing you commission once you have owned every amazing factory Porsche that you desire...
If I had a CGT, RS, 911R, and 918 in the garage, I could see this being a fun toy. As it is, there are too many stock Porsches that I would still want before going after essentially a resto-mod.
Whatever you decide, enjoy it...can't go wrong.
I have been a little behind in my communication - burning the candle at both ends right now. At the beginning of September I leave for a trip I have been planning with a few riding buddies - shipping our BMW GS's to Cartagena and spending 10 weeks riding to Ushuia, southern most city in the world. Getting things prepped, business on track to run smoothly, etc has been a bit harried. But as with anything, it always gets done somehow. Whatever I forget will be something I didn't need.
Back to the Singer.....I had to cancel my flight the day before I was going out. Could not postpone some business I had to be present for. Since then I have been drifting away from the Singer for now. "Jack-Porsche" put it quite perfectly above. Maybe I am just getting ahead of myself and missing some of the great things that already exist. Hence the other post I started: WTB.......911R.
One of the great things I am learning from this forum is the quality of people who are involved. I have been fortunate in the past month or so to have a few folks, previous strangers, reach out through emails and phone calls and just thoroughly enjoyed the conversations - hope there will be more. The sharing of the "Porsche" experience, cars in general, the history, random topics, life, etc....what a treat for me. There are some really great interesting people on this forum. And through this little journey I have been moving away from a Singer and towards the R or something similar. I did get to share a few emails with a couple of current Singer owners and no one had anything bad to say at all and truly loved their cars. NO regrets. There is no denying the appeal. They build a great car.
As far as an RS, maybe still, maybe not. This one is a tough decsion. If I can not find the right R, I had thought maybe an RS would be a nice consolation prize. There is no doubt they are great cars and I would enjoy it. But what is most appealing about an R is being a wingless hot-rod. And the more I think about what I would enjoy driving the most, a "hot-rod", a pure performance car that doesn't scream race car is awfully enticing. I really like the sleeper quality - the understated elegance, the fact that most people would have no idea what it is.
For me that is the only downside to an RS, not exactly subtle. I understand the purpose and would love it on the occasional track day, but feel a little uncomfortable driving on the mountain roads. But then again, probably would get over it ! Still a possibility.
For now, an R is more desirable. Getting close to what I want to spend on one. I understand the prices. If I had an R to sell, I would certainly want to do it now, sooner than later. Still a few folks who didn't get one, have plenty of money, and see it as an investment. I'm not interested in an investment, just one to drive. And truthfully, not sure how great of investment it may be long term. I'll bet 10 bucks the prices fall more once the GT3 manual is announced and released. Whatever.
So I'm still an active buyer looking for the right one. I've spoken to a few folks, nothing has been perfect yet. Don't think I am being unrealistic in expecting a deal to work out, just not sure when that will be. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who has one or getting one, especially someone in the VIP program. They understood the possibilities, the unknowns and took the risk. Good for them. They deserve all the special cars offered to them. That was the deal. And the few 918 guys I have talked to before I started looking for an R were genuine enthusiasts, the ones who should be driving the cars.
Will let you know how the search goes......
08-13-2016, 11:05 AM
#50
Very well said.
I have been a little behind in my communication - burning the candle at both ends right now. At the beginning of September I leave for a trip I have been planning with a few riding buddies - shipping our BMW GS's to Cartagena and spending 10 weeks riding to Ushuia, southern most city in the world. Getting things prepped, business on track to run smoothly, etc has been a bit harried. But as with anything, it always gets done somehow. Whatever I forget will be something I didn't need.
Back to the Singer.....I had to cancel my flight the day before I was going out. Could not postpone some business I had to be present for. Since then I have been drifting away from the Singer for now. "Jack-Porsche" put it quite perfectly above. Maybe I am just getting ahead of myself and missing some of the great things that already exist. Hence the other post I started: WTB.......911R.
One of the great things I am learning from this forum is the quality of people who are involved. I have been fortunate in the past month or so to have a few folks, previous strangers, reach out through emails and phone calls and just thoroughly enjoyed the conversations - hope there will be more. The sharing of the "Porsche" experience, cars in general, the history, random topics, life, etc....what a treat for me. There are some really great interesting people on this forum. And through this little journey I have been moving away from a Singer and towards the R or something similar. I did get to share a few emails with a couple of current Singer owners and no one had anything bad to say at all and truly loved their cars. NO regrets. There is no denying the appeal. They build a great car.
As far as an RS, maybe still, maybe not. This one is a tough decsion. If I can not find the right R, I had thought maybe an RS would be a nice consolation prize. There is no doubt they are great cars and I would enjoy it. But what is most appealing about an R is being a wingless hot-rod. And the more I think about what I would enjoy driving the most, a "hot-rod", a pure performance car that doesn't scream race car is awfully enticing. I really like the sleeper quality - the understated elegance, the fact that most people would have no idea what it is.
For me that is the only downside to an RS, not exactly subtle. I understand the purpose and would love it on the occasional track day, but feel a little uncomfortable driving on the mountain roads. But then again, probably would get over it ! Still a possibility.
For now, an R is more desirable. Getting close to what I want to spend on one. I understand the prices. If I had an R to sell, I would certainly want to do it now, sooner than later. Still a few folks who didn't get one, have plenty of money, and see it as an investment. I'm not interested in an investment, just one to drive. And truthfully, not sure how great of investment it may be long term. I'll bet 10 bucks the prices fall more once the GT3 manual is announced and released. Whatever.
So I'm still an active buyer looking for the right one. I've spoken to a few folks, nothing has been perfect yet. Don't think I am being unrealistic in expecting a deal to work out, just not sure when that will be. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who has one or getting one, especially someone in the VIP program. They understood the possibilities, the unknowns and took the risk. Good for them. They deserve all the special cars offered to them. That was the deal. And the few 918 guys I have talked to before I started looking for an R were genuine enthusiasts, the ones who should be driving the cars.
Will let you know how the search goes......
I have been a little behind in my communication - burning the candle at both ends right now. At the beginning of September I leave for a trip I have been planning with a few riding buddies - shipping our BMW GS's to Cartagena and spending 10 weeks riding to Ushuia, southern most city in the world. Getting things prepped, business on track to run smoothly, etc has been a bit harried. But as with anything, it always gets done somehow. Whatever I forget will be something I didn't need.
Back to the Singer.....I had to cancel my flight the day before I was going out. Could not postpone some business I had to be present for. Since then I have been drifting away from the Singer for now. "Jack-Porsche" put it quite perfectly above. Maybe I am just getting ahead of myself and missing some of the great things that already exist. Hence the other post I started: WTB.......911R.
One of the great things I am learning from this forum is the quality of people who are involved. I have been fortunate in the past month or so to have a few folks, previous strangers, reach out through emails and phone calls and just thoroughly enjoyed the conversations - hope there will be more. The sharing of the "Porsche" experience, cars in general, the history, random topics, life, etc....what a treat for me. There are some really great interesting people on this forum. And through this little journey I have been moving away from a Singer and towards the R or something similar. I did get to share a few emails with a couple of current Singer owners and no one had anything bad to say at all and truly loved their cars. NO regrets. There is no denying the appeal. They build a great car.
As far as an RS, maybe still, maybe not. This one is a tough decsion. If I can not find the right R, I had thought maybe an RS would be a nice consolation prize. There is no doubt they are great cars and I would enjoy it. But what is most appealing about an R is being a wingless hot-rod. And the more I think about what I would enjoy driving the most, a "hot-rod", a pure performance car that doesn't scream race car is awfully enticing. I really like the sleeper quality - the understated elegance, the fact that most people would have no idea what it is.
For me that is the only downside to an RS, not exactly subtle. I understand the purpose and would love it on the occasional track day, but feel a little uncomfortable driving on the mountain roads. But then again, probably would get over it ! Still a possibility.
For now, an R is more desirable. Getting close to what I want to spend on one. I understand the prices. If I had an R to sell, I would certainly want to do it now, sooner than later. Still a few folks who didn't get one, have plenty of money, and see it as an investment. I'm not interested in an investment, just one to drive. And truthfully, not sure how great of investment it may be long term. I'll bet 10 bucks the prices fall more once the GT3 manual is announced and released. Whatever.
So I'm still an active buyer looking for the right one. I've spoken to a few folks, nothing has been perfect yet. Don't think I am being unrealistic in expecting a deal to work out, just not sure when that will be. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who has one or getting one, especially someone in the VIP program. They understood the possibilities, the unknowns and took the risk. Good for them. They deserve all the special cars offered to them. That was the deal. And the few 918 guys I have talked to before I started looking for an R were genuine enthusiasts, the ones who should be driving the cars.
Will let you know how the search goes......
Have / had the 918, CGT, RS of various years etc etc and Singer has them beat, easily, in terms of keeper cars and driving pleasure, fit/finish, craftsmanship.
just my thoughts ..
08-13-2016, 10:35 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
^Interesting thoughts...probably because I can't get one I am nuts for a 911R. My buddy has one coming in mint green with black stripes...that should be pretty cool.
Was watching a video of a Singer hitting a speed trap at 177...the car is off the hook!!!
Was watching a video of a Singer hitting a speed trap at 177...the car is off the hook!!!
08-14-2016, 11:12 AM
#52
assuming the R trades at 450+ then you are at singer money. i haven't driven an R but i don't think it would matter (had the 991RS); for build quality, materials, and air cooled engine alone I would put my money in the singer. Its so clearly a better 'value'. Certainly the market will be less liquid than the R so this would have to be your keeper, but sounds like OP wants the R as a keeper too.
Not to mention the car is 300lb+ lighter than the R and its steering feel is beyond compare. It really is in an entirely different category of machine. Porsche will never make a new car that drives as analog and well simply due to legislation.
08-14-2016, 11:59 AM
#55
08-20-2016, 02:39 AM
#56
Interesting, seen today at Werks Reunion :
Or : What are the “alternatives” if Singer delivery becomes real too long ?
What do you think about this one ??
To my eyes, a really gorgeous one, I think I would even prefer this one over a Singer !
More authentic, much more "real 911".
Or, for more info (I have no interest at all with any of these !) :
http://www.zurlindenllc.com/
Or : What are the “alternatives” if Singer delivery becomes real too long ?
What do you think about this one ??
To my eyes, a really gorgeous one, I think I would even prefer this one over a Singer !
More authentic, much more "real 911".
Or, for more info (I have no interest at all with any of these !) :
http://www.zurlindenllc.com/
08-20-2016, 11:50 AM
#57
As you know, I have been critical of Singer, not because of what it is which I think is an excellently executed resto-mod, but because of what it claims to be, an almost mythical autonobile, while I see it, particularly from an engineering point of view, as a 964 with some very nice details. This vehicle, the Zurlinden, though I think it looks good (which I also think of Singer), is clearly at a more primitive state than is the Singer. Regardless of what I think, the Singer crew has spent several years honing their formula and the result is clearly a refined automobile, particularly from a paint and interior look point of view (though I would continue to quarrel with some of the Singer interior modifications as I have since I saw my first Singer in early 2011). And, while, again from an engineering point of view, it would not be that difficult to upgrade the Singer to where it curently claims to be, this could be done for Zurlinden too. Additionally the Zurlinden could learn much from Singer's very pleasing styling and clear attention to artistic detail. The tools are out there, the goals of Singer and Zurlinden seem very much similar - and each could reach new levels of success which I clearly wish for both of them.
08-31-2016, 12:19 AM
#58
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Nice choice you have to make here but it's not easy!
I hear you in regards to this decision and wanting to make the right choice for this kind of money. Go for the brand new Porsche OEM route for all the reasons like - original Porsche product, resale if need be later, brand new tech etc or the non-Porsche tuner special like Singer, individual bespoke Savile Row tailoring and old school looks, analogue etc. This has been something I have thought about myself but isn’t the decision really about the engine here?
Comparing Water versus Air?
For many, it's either “water” camp or “air” camp (both if you have the $$$$) but we are discussing both as if they are the same here?
The new water cooled models like the R and the RS are wonderful pieces of kit and are all original Porsche that I really think are fantastic pieces of machinery. The Singer is something very different, it's something that is hard to put into words sometimes. The level of detail can only really be appreciated seeing one in the flesh and if possible being made in their small shop which I had the pleasure to do the other year and shame your trip got postponed. Just amazing detail and looks, therein lies the rub, The Singer is something like a piece of art, something you can just gaze at in the garage like a sculpture as well as drive hard. It is an air cooled look back of 1970's style brought up to date. You may not get noticed all the time in it (sometimes a good thing) but when you do I believe it's a lot of fun seeing people or talking to them as they know what a special vehicle this really is.
The R and RS are also this in part but everyone knows it's a special Porsche and high performance no hiding that.
It's water or air, classic look or the modern age OEM . I would say most people that order the Singer don't really bother about re-sale and know they will keep it till they pass it on to the next generation, whatever its value (I would say it would hold a vast amount of its value).
The R and RS are vehicles (after a number of years of ownership) that could be sold on perhaps for the next new model or a change from Porsche when something new and special comes around, the Singer is a vehicle you would keep forever, forging a relationship with it every time you touch it and blast down the road in it. Maybe drive both and decide as they are very different size vehicles and choices.
Singer could be enjoyed more at lower speeds and is a more unique hand built product you have direct input to its look as Singer can change a lot depending on what you require to a point.
It just depends on what you want? There is no wrong choice here! I think once you drive them you will decide.
I hear you in regards to this decision and wanting to make the right choice for this kind of money. Go for the brand new Porsche OEM route for all the reasons like - original Porsche product, resale if need be later, brand new tech etc or the non-Porsche tuner special like Singer, individual bespoke Savile Row tailoring and old school looks, analogue etc. This has been something I have thought about myself but isn’t the decision really about the engine here?
Comparing Water versus Air?
For many, it's either “water” camp or “air” camp (both if you have the $$$$) but we are discussing both as if they are the same here?
The new water cooled models like the R and the RS are wonderful pieces of kit and are all original Porsche that I really think are fantastic pieces of machinery. The Singer is something very different, it's something that is hard to put into words sometimes. The level of detail can only really be appreciated seeing one in the flesh and if possible being made in their small shop which I had the pleasure to do the other year and shame your trip got postponed. Just amazing detail and looks, therein lies the rub, The Singer is something like a piece of art, something you can just gaze at in the garage like a sculpture as well as drive hard. It is an air cooled look back of 1970's style brought up to date. You may not get noticed all the time in it (sometimes a good thing) but when you do I believe it's a lot of fun seeing people or talking to them as they know what a special vehicle this really is.
The R and RS are also this in part but everyone knows it's a special Porsche and high performance no hiding that.
It's water or air, classic look or the modern age OEM . I would say most people that order the Singer don't really bother about re-sale and know they will keep it till they pass it on to the next generation, whatever its value (I would say it would hold a vast amount of its value).
The R and RS are vehicles (after a number of years of ownership) that could be sold on perhaps for the next new model or a change from Porsche when something new and special comes around, the Singer is a vehicle you would keep forever, forging a relationship with it every time you touch it and blast down the road in it. Maybe drive both and decide as they are very different size vehicles and choices.
Singer could be enjoyed more at lower speeds and is a more unique hand built product you have direct input to its look as Singer can change a lot depending on what you require to a point.
It just depends on what you want? There is no wrong choice here! I think once you drive them you will decide.
08-31-2016, 07:44 AM
#59
Nice choice you have to make here but it's not easy!
I hear you in regards to this decision and wanting to make the right choice for this kind of money. Go for the brand new Porsche OEM route for all the reasons like - original Porsche product, resale if need be later, brand new tech etc or the non-Porsche tuner special like Singer, individual bespoke Savile Row tailoring and old school looks, analogue etc. This has been something I have thought about myself but isn’t the decision really about the engine here?
Comparing Water versus Air?
For many, it's either “water” camp or “air” camp (both if you have the $$$$) but we are discussing both as if they are the same here?
The new water cooled models like the R and the RS are wonderful pieces of kit and are all original Porsche that I really think are fantastic pieces of machinery. The Singer is something very different, it's something that is hard to put into words sometimes. The level of detail can only really be appreciated seeing one in the flesh and if possible being made in their small shop which I had the pleasure to do the other year and shame your trip got postponed. Just amazing detail and looks, therein lies the rub, The Singer is something like a piece of art, something you can just gaze at in the garage like a sculpture as well as drive hard. It is an air cooled look back of 1970's style brought up to date. You may not get noticed all the time in it (sometimes a good thing) but when you do I believe it's a lot of fun seeing people or talking to them as they know what a special vehicle this really is.
The R and RS are also this in part but everyone knows it's a special Porsche and high performance no hiding that.
It's water or air, classic look or the modern age OEM . I would say most people that order the Singer don't really bother about re-sale and know they will keep it till they pass it on to the next generation, whatever its value (I would say it would hold a vast amount of its value).
The R and RS are vehicles (after a number of years of ownership) that could be sold on perhaps for the next new model or a change from Porsche when something new and special comes around, the Singer is a vehicle you would keep forever, forging a relationship with it every time you touch it and blast down the road in it. Maybe drive both and decide as they are very different size vehicles and choices.
Singer could be enjoyed more at lower speeds and is a more unique hand built product you have direct input to its look as Singer can change a lot depending on what you require to a point.
It just depends on what you want? There is no wrong choice here! I think once you drive them you will decide.
I hear you in regards to this decision and wanting to make the right choice for this kind of money. Go for the brand new Porsche OEM route for all the reasons like - original Porsche product, resale if need be later, brand new tech etc or the non-Porsche tuner special like Singer, individual bespoke Savile Row tailoring and old school looks, analogue etc. This has been something I have thought about myself but isn’t the decision really about the engine here?
Comparing Water versus Air?
For many, it's either “water” camp or “air” camp (both if you have the $$$$) but we are discussing both as if they are the same here?
The new water cooled models like the R and the RS are wonderful pieces of kit and are all original Porsche that I really think are fantastic pieces of machinery. The Singer is something very different, it's something that is hard to put into words sometimes. The level of detail can only really be appreciated seeing one in the flesh and if possible being made in their small shop which I had the pleasure to do the other year and shame your trip got postponed. Just amazing detail and looks, therein lies the rub, The Singer is something like a piece of art, something you can just gaze at in the garage like a sculpture as well as drive hard. It is an air cooled look back of 1970's style brought up to date. You may not get noticed all the time in it (sometimes a good thing) but when you do I believe it's a lot of fun seeing people or talking to them as they know what a special vehicle this really is.
The R and RS are also this in part but everyone knows it's a special Porsche and high performance no hiding that.
It's water or air, classic look or the modern age OEM . I would say most people that order the Singer don't really bother about re-sale and know they will keep it till they pass it on to the next generation, whatever its value (I would say it would hold a vast amount of its value).
The R and RS are vehicles (after a number of years of ownership) that could be sold on perhaps for the next new model or a change from Porsche when something new and special comes around, the Singer is a vehicle you would keep forever, forging a relationship with it every time you touch it and blast down the road in it. Maybe drive both and decide as they are very different size vehicles and choices.
Singer could be enjoyed more at lower speeds and is a more unique hand built product you have direct input to its look as Singer can change a lot depending on what you require to a point.
It just depends on what you want? There is no wrong choice here! I think once you drive them you will decide.
09-01-2016, 10:44 PM
#60
Rennlist Member