Cupcar#12

+25K to sticker for a CGT, delivery this summer.
let me know if any one is interested i will put you in touch with the seller
(which has 3 on the way, this one is open)
750K nice if you can get it, but i doupt it at this point. maybe for a very low serial number car but not for a low-mid production one.

Nick

A quote from this month Motor Trend Magazine

"Supercars have become bearish investments lately. Suddenly, there are too many Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porsche CGT's chasing cautious money. Mercedes's more relaxed SLR falls outside that hypersports club...."

Buyers are becoming more discriminating and questioning long term value in these cars. If rumors are correct regarding the replacement for the Modena 360 looking like the Enzo (known as the little Enzo) imagine how that will impact the Enzo present price tag of 1.2 million.

The CGT will suffer from a high production number. The true enthusiast could care less about value or production number. However he or she should be prepared to take a substantial haircut in a very short period of time.

ben in lj

" If rumors are correct regarding the replacement for the Modena 360 looking like the Enzo (known as the little Enzo) imagine how that will impact the Enzo present price tag of 1.2 million."

probably won't impact well the morons paying the silly premiums to MSRP on the current 360 either.

Hubert

You mean 225k on an 04 spider isn't a good deal?

jmmitias

I am certainly no expert on these matters, but that won't dissuade me from adding my 2 cents worth(and that is all it is worth).

First, the car is incredible. I have seen it in all its glory at the Detroit Auto Show. My car fanatic friends and I called it the best of show. Porsche has 63 patents on the car and the processes used to manufacture it.

Second, the carbon-reinforced plastic looks to be quite a breakthrough but will not affect production vehicles for about 10 years. If the car is damaged, you must take it to the dealer and have them dismantle it so that the monocoque can be shipped to Germany for repair!

Third, there are still 500 for sale. I have tried to talk a very wealthy friend of mine to buy it to go along with his Enzo but he stated(after I told him the above) that he will simply wait for the price to drop.

Fourth, there are a glut of supercars. Also, there are several that are close in performance for 25% of the price. You can buy a Gallardo, 360 Modena Spyder, and a 911 Turbo for the same price. I know that you can make that argument for any car but there is a law of diminishing returns that even apply to the wealthy. The afore-mentioned person with the Enzo had an F50 and will sell both because of the "been there done that" syndrome. He has come to the realization that you get tired of whatever you drive, so why spent $450,000? Just buy the "affordable" supercars and have a ball. That feeling is prevalent among many of the wealthy enthusiats I know.

Fifth, The depreciation risk on car of that price range is absolutely savage. You could easily lose $100,000 very quickly. My prediction is that the first people on the list are a combo of enthusiast car lovers and speculators. The speculators will bail on the car and there will be a supply which will scare the market. The Gallardo is a case in point. I have been called three times already on available cars!

Disclaimer: I am famous for predicting that Ryan Leaf would make a far better NFL quarterback that Peyton Manning.

Les Quam

JMMITIAS, I would say your thoughts are worth a lot more than 2 cents. That is one of the most articulate, intelligent post's regarding this issue. Even though I can afford the car and I really don't get tired of my supercars if a GT 2 qualifies as a supercar. What scares me the most is simply pissing away the money on what looks to me to be as you say "savage" depreciation. And even though I am a loyal porsche buyer with 4 current porsche's and 2 more on the way. I have owned Vipers which are hand built and can see that this CGT is not going to significantly out perform my GT 2 or an 04 viper or a Ford GT or a Gallardo. I also own a 2003 mustang SVT Cobra which with a few bolt on's is at the 450 HP mark. Is the new CGT going to outperform my GT 2 by a quarter million dollars worth? Is it going to outperform a ford GT by 300,000 dollars? I don't know? Is the CGT the best all around performance car on this planet? Yes!!!!!!!! But unless I take it on the track which Porsche may or may not warranty anything that breaks, where in heck am I going to use all that technology? Sometimes I think it's too much car for the road and too much money gambled on a 1500 car production run. If I had Jerry Seinfelds money I would add one more car to my garage, and never think twice. But 446,000 for a car that a ford GT with a chip and pulley upgrade will run right with makes me very nervous...... I need Ben and Mike my support group to talk me back into this car!!!!!! Because you just talked me out of it.

trz

You are looking for reinforcement - I will provide the opposite. I passed on my allocation a year ago when the final deposit was required. I have the same concerns that you and jmmitias have enumerated. In my opinion, the Carrera Gt is for those who can easily afford it, and who have no concerns about its standing relative to other cars or its potential depreciation. Those concerns (which are legitimate in my opinion) will get in the way of your enjoyment of the car. For those such as Mike and Ben, who have expressed only positive sentiments about the car, I applaud their purchase and hope that they are thrilled with the car, as I'm sure they will be. For me, and maybe for you, our doubts and concerns might detract from our enjoyment of the car. At 446 K, I don't want to purchase doubts, no matter how tempting the package. At that price, the car has to be everything that I ever wanted or could want, and I realize that no car -even the Carrera Gt - can fill that bill (but this car comes really close!).
That said, if you can overcome your doubts, I think that you will love this car. The question is whether it is worth it to you.

trz

Les Quam

TRZ, I think you have summed it up very well. It is for people who can EASILY afford it not those like me who can afford it and also have a ton of money tied up in other cars and are concerned about depreciation and competition from other cars. It's tough to pass up,but I had hoped for better quarter mile times than 11.6. Porsche claims 11.4 and is generally conservative. This time they were optimistic. I think the relative lack of torque hurts and this car is best suited to the autobahn.

ben in lj

les that sound is worth $100k alone :-)

btw, there is still a slot available for the leipzig factory ride on 3/12. i would strongly suggest you consider this as you will know right away if you're in or not. i'd love to meet you anyway.

Les Quam

Ben, where have you and Mike been? I thought we were a support group? I can't make the factory ride I have family vacation planned and can't change plans. My dealer gets their first one in April and I will get a ride then. That will make up my mind. I have heard from others the sound is nothing less than a seduction!

ben in lj

les, the sound at least via video so far is nothing short of orgasmic. you'll hear alot about straight line numbers etc for the competition (as we often do), but you won't hear anything about those cars pulling lateral 1.35Gs on street tires like the CGT! too bad you can't make the factory ride. it should be several magnitudes more serious than the one you're taking in april - then again, yours will probably come with a "hug" :-). the leipzig one as you probably know is a ***** out adventure around the porsche factory track. i'm not sure anyone could attend that and not feel more than justified in their purchase.

W8MM

Hi Les!

Having a support group open to all sorts of pessimistic carpers makes it a whole lot of extra work. My plans to enjoy the heck out of this car and keep it for a good long time have not changed, but this thread draws poo-poo-ers like flies. Keeping you juiced up against every nay-sayer is too much like work.

Most of the queasiness that I hear seems to emanate from those who consider cars as a piece of their investment portfolio. From previous experience with this personality type, I avoid talking to them as much as possible. I got really tired of them about 20 years ago when they were buying Ferrari 288 GTOs, and the like. As I get older, I like them even less. They have a perfect right to their avocation and I don't wish them any ill. I'm not their kind of car guy and I'd prefer not to hang out with them.

A few others appear to flip cars very often because they are soon bored with any new purchase. I'm not like them, either. Cars to which I'm really attracted have something about them which keeps me interested for quite a while. I sometimes keep cars for 15 to 20 years before I sell them.

The CGT is the perfect fit for what I like about dynamic, exciting, memorable, and thoroughly enjoyable vehicles. In order to make room in my garage (and in my wallet) for the Carrera GT, I sold my 3 "keeper" race cars. A Porsche 962, a McLaren-BMW 320 (ex-David Hobbs), and my 9114600040 IROC car. I'll sell my '01 TT coupe when the CGT arrives.

The CGT is the perfect distillation of all of the above cars into something which is more than the sum of the three. First, it's faster in every way than all of them, save the 962. It's much more "streetable" than the 962, and comes with a factory warrantee for driving it as a real car. License plates are not a problem for it. Should I buy a Dauer 962 and find a way to drive it on the street in the USA? It's not as appealing to me as the CGT. The CGT is far from a grocery getter, but it is way more "practical" to own, drive, and maintain than the others.

The 962 needed a 200 PSI air bottle (air jacks) to simply change a tire. There's no slipping a floor jack under it. Flat tire out on the road? Even flat-bed tow trucks have trouble with it if the driver isn't very sharp (think chassis damage). One has to remove the nose and winch it on backwards, then replace the nose. The titanium valve springs need replaced at regular intervals because they "take a set", especially with infrequent use (not considered a problem for race cars). If the engine were to be "de-tuned" to run on 93 R+M/2 pump gas (instead of race gas), it would end up losing hundreds of horse-power. The car has a turning circle the same as a school bus. I almost crashed it in the paddock at Mid-Ohio trying to turn into my assigned garage in one wide swing. This is no city car. Plus, it's limited to a single occupant. Period.

Both the McLaren-BMW 320 and the IROC 911 are a bit more tractable than the 962, but aren't even civilised compared to the CGT. Plus, the CGT is way faster than either one of them. Neither car has any cockpit heat. Rain is no fun at all in the 320. They're both race cars. The IROC at least had license plates, but the exhaust was so loud that it attracted involuntary road-side inspections more often than was amusing. My wife wouldn't ride in it.

As you may agree, I've been there -- owned that. The Carrera GT is very seductive for someone with my history, and others may not agree with my priorities. Maybe the CGT actually is a geezer's hot rod, since it is all polished up and ready to take out to the country club. However, the driving dynamics are said to be most reminiscent of the GT1 by drivers who have seat time in nearly every Porsche race car of the past 20 years. This means it drives better than a 962. I can't imagine wanting anything more than that.


So, Les, buck up and have a happy time contemplating your very own CGT. I am.

PogueMoHone

Now, that's a post!

Nick

Mike you made the case for yourself very well. The CGT is a special car which a VERY FEW people can enjoy. I have no doubt you and Ben are within the select few who can enjoy the car.

That said, one cannot ignore the various downsides to the car. I raised the repair issue sometime ago. In addition I have read the car can be serviced locally only for the minor problems. Anything major will require either the car, engine, and tranny be shipped to Germany.

Finally does anyone whether the car is insurable in light of its cost and chassis composition? I suggest those of you who are buying investigate this issue. Maybe Porsche will provide you with insurance.

wch

"Most of the queasiness that I hear seems to emanate from those who consider cars as a piece of their investment portfolio."

Amen. These folks - as well as the owner who expects his supercar to be extremely reliable and inexpensive to maintain and repair - seem to end up bitter and disappointed more often than not. If you love the car and plan to keep it a bit, then depreciation doesn't matter.