Question for deposit holders of CGT
12-07-2003, 07:45 PM
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Question for deposit holders of CGT
This is an honest question on my part to fellow deposit holders of CGT or anyone with an opinion. My question is this, Porsche is asking us to pay 446,00 for a high performance car that they claim will do the quarter mile in 11.4 . 0 to 60 in 3.8 seconds and top out at 205 or 210. Yes I know Porsche is always on the conservative side, but the recent car and driver mag. has the Ford Gt at 11.6 quarter mile 0 to 60 at 3.3 and top speed over 200, what exactly are we paying the extra 300,000 dollars for over a Ford GT? Are we to pay for Porsches R and D ? Clearly I understand the technology inherent in the CGT. But all that carbon fibre still has the CGT at 3043 pounds without radio ,nav and air. The fully optioned car will way over 3100 pounds same as a vette or Gt2. yes I understand that the fit and finish will far exceed any Ford GT. But 300,000 dollars more? In my opinion Porsche torque rating of 435 for the CGT misses the mark, I can't see that being enough torque to launch a 3100 pound car. And the street is no place to do 205 and most race tracks don't have enough room to see 200 MPH so where exactly are we supposed to use all this top end HP? Plus they would like to build 1500 of these cars so low volume really isn't a factor. So what do we get for our extra 300,000 dollars????????
12-08-2003, 11:45 AM
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I agree
The CGT does not provide enough separation from the competition in terms of acceleration figures thus far published. Coupling this with the relatively high production numbers (1500 vs. 399 enzos, 349 F 50's for example), and given the performance gains that other marques wil enjoy during the GT's three year production run, I declined to tender my deposit when offered. The early cars may trade in the secondary market at a premium for awhile, but I would be surprised if any premium would last long.
trz
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12-08-2003, 12:33 PM
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Well the engine sound is sweet!
The reality is there is no way one can rationalize buying this car or any other supercar because in a word they are super impractical. The power is overwhelming for street use and comfort is almost nonexistant. Taking the car to a track would be financially risky because of its value and maintenance.
One buys this car because he/she has money to burn and can occasionally take it out on public streets for others to admire.
The reality is there is no way one can rationalize buying this car or any other supercar because in a word they are super impractical. The power is overwhelming for street use and comfort is almost nonexistant. Taking the car to a track would be financially risky because of its value and maintenance.
One buys this car because he/she has money to burn and can occasionally take it out on public streets for others to admire.
12-12-2003, 02:50 PM
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You guys all sound like drag racers on a budget 
There is no adequately rational reason for a USA customer to buy any super car. What reasons that do exist are purely personal, and resist calculation. That being said, so what?
For those fixated on the price, why even buy a 996 TT? Won't a Chevy Cavalier provide more rear seat room? Won't a Honda Accord have as good or better gas mileage? What about service costs? Boy, ... one would have to be stupid to spend what a TT costs on a mere car. No?
Supposing one were an avid pilot (and could afford it), what's the matter with lusting after a P-51 Mustang? Clearly a Piper Comanche costs much less and still flies between the same airports.
Some people like to have something that their neighbors don't. As far as a CGT goes, I guess it depends on the neighborhood in which one lives. Are we talking about my neighborhood or yours?
Once we concede that this is just pure fun, nothing more serious, then many other factors can be discussed. Some buyers are loyal for their own psychological reasons to certain brands. Ferrari. Lamborghini. Porsche. Lotus. Aston Martin. Ford. Chevy. If one's favorite brand produces an exotic car that sets a new benchmark, maybe some will be interested in buying it, irrespective of whether it is the most cost-effective choice.
As for me, I like the fact that the CGT is very competitive on the road courses of the world against the best street-legal competition available. Just because it can't out-drag a top fuel funny car is of little import to me. My enjoyments will come behind the wheel in fast curves on back roads or "roarting around" hired-for-the-day race tracks of my previous aquaintance. I even expect it to bring a smile to my face on freeway entrance ramps as I commute between the forgoing places.
YMMV
There is no adequately rational reason for a USA customer to buy any super car. What reasons that do exist are purely personal, and resist calculation. That being said, so what?
For those fixated on the price, why even buy a 996 TT? Won't a Chevy Cavalier provide more rear seat room? Won't a Honda Accord have as good or better gas mileage? What about service costs? Boy, ... one would have to be stupid to spend what a TT costs on a mere car. No?
Supposing one were an avid pilot (and could afford it), what's the matter with lusting after a P-51 Mustang? Clearly a Piper Comanche costs much less and still flies between the same airports.
Some people like to have something that their neighbors don't. As far as a CGT goes, I guess it depends on the neighborhood in which one lives. Are we talking about my neighborhood or yours?
Once we concede that this is just pure fun, nothing more serious, then many other factors can be discussed. Some buyers are loyal for their own psychological reasons to certain brands. Ferrari. Lamborghini. Porsche. Lotus. Aston Martin. Ford. Chevy. If one's favorite brand produces an exotic car that sets a new benchmark, maybe some will be interested in buying it, irrespective of whether it is the most cost-effective choice.
As for me, I like the fact that the CGT is very competitive on the road courses of the world against the best street-legal competition available. Just because it can't out-drag a top fuel funny car is of little import to me. My enjoyments will come behind the wheel in fast curves on back roads or "roarting around" hired-for-the-day race tracks of my previous aquaintance. I even expect it to bring a smile to my face on freeway entrance ramps as I commute between the forgoing places.
YMMV
Last edited by W8MM; 12-12-2003 at 03:50 PM.
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12-12-2003, 09:39 PM
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Mike I agree with most of your post. I really had never considered that such a car is never rational and is always purchased for fun. And your right how do you put a price on fun if you can afford the car. However my concern aside from what could be a dramatic loss due to depreciation, is that a GT 2 for close to the same money as a Ford GT is no contest to me because the Gt 2 has such far superior fit and finish and quality over the Ford. To me after owning several vipers a 996 TT for the extra money is worth it because of the increased quality and handling over the Viper. In other words I pay more but get equal value for the extra money. I like the fact that the CGT has the finest suspension ever put on a street car, but I am disappointed that the HP and torque does not separate it from it's competitors for the extra money. I admire the fact that Porsche is building the car and that it is directly derived from the 1998 LeMans winning GT 1. But feel that Porsche underestimated the performance of the Gallardo,Ford Gt, Viper, Mercedes SL and CL 65 when they built this motor. By 2005 when I get my car, 600 HP may be readily available for substantially less. But I like your thinking, life is not a dress rehearsal!!
12-16-2003, 12:23 AM
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The Ford GT is a great looking car. Porsche needs to watch for Ford, they are in the "crosshairs" so to speak with not only the GT but also the entire Aston Martin line. Porsche had has a very long run owning the very profitable sports car market but that will be soon coming to and end. The margins will narrow with competition (hence the new lines from Porsche).
As for the CGT holding value? I wouldn't count on it. You can pick up 959's for a song (but the maintenance will kill you).
John
As for the CGT holding value? I wouldn't count on it. You can pick up 959's for a song (but the maintenance will kill you).
John
12-16-2003, 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by jhunt@huntinter
The Ford GT is a great looking car. Porsche needs to watch for Ford, they are in the "crosshairs" so to speak with not only the GT but also the entire Aston Martin line. Porsche had has a very long run owning the very profitable sports car market but that will be soon coming to and end. The margins will narrow with competition (hence the new lines from Porsche).
The Ford GT is a great looking car. Porsche needs to watch for Ford, they are in the "crosshairs" so to speak with not only the GT but also the entire Aston Martin line. Porsche had has a very long run owning the very profitable sports car market but that will be soon coming to and end. The margins will narrow with competition (hence the new lines from Porsche).
I have a doctor friend that loves old Astons and has a restored DB6. He visited the new Aston factory on his last trip to England. He has high hopes for their new lot in life and would travel a great distance (as he often does now) to obtain a new DB9 (or other). He's died-in-the-wool.
After Aston sells a few to my friend and some trial lawyers in town, how are they going to reach the big time numbers needed to even dent Porsche's market share? What volume does it take for an Aston dealer to survive without also having Lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini, or a German sedan maker in the same showroom/service-center. Most Aston dealers are like this now. It's very limiting. How will they expand enough to hurt Porsche in the US?
Maybe I'm dumb, but I await your explanation.
Cordially,
12-16-2003, 11:10 AM
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OK, that's a good data point.
Competition is always good for the consumer. According to Herr Wiedeking, Porsche's cost structures will allow them to compete with any other car maker in the volumes their chosen markets demand.
If Aston comes on strong, the products Porsche will be required to produce should be quite exciting and a better value that even what we have today.
Cheers,
Competition is always good for the consumer. According to Herr Wiedeking, Porsche's cost structures will allow them to compete with any other car maker in the volumes their chosen markets demand.
If Aston comes on strong, the products Porsche will be required to produce should be quite exciting and a better value that even what we have today.
Cheers,
12-16-2003, 12:27 PM
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My local Porsche dealer is the only Porsche and Aston Martin dealer in town. They are building an entire new building for Aston Martin because of the strong sales in this region. Currently in the showroom Porsche and Aston Martin sit side by side. If not for Cayenne the Aston's would be equal in sales. If the Aston's weren't so slow and heavy I could be interested, because build quality fit and finish is pretty good on the hand built Aston's. The Vanquish's flew out the door, which is hard for such a heavy car.