996 cup or 997 cup?
08-23-2016, 07:41 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
That's a great lap time. At fast tracks like the Glen and Lime Rock, you can probably just drive by the book and keep the car happy and fast. But tracks where you come into really tight 2nd gear turns fast, there are things I have seen professionals do that make it tough for an amateur to match. It was a long time ago so I don't remember exactly. Dino Loles was great at that, I think he learned from Wolf and the other F-L pros, and he beat most of the 997 cups in his 996 cup in the early days of IMSA GT3 cup.
08-23-2016, 09:09 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
If you talking about letting the 'rear hangout', this is probably true. Biggest factor (amongst many other things!) that sets my pro coach apart from me, with regard to lap times, is the way he exits corners and lets the 'rear float' and control it with throttle. This allows him to carry lot more speed into corners and correct oversteer with throttle. Looks like the rear floating and the cars is sideways the whole time!!
I thought that was true of all 911s though.
I thought that was true of all 911s though.
08-24-2016, 12:03 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
^ Right there. It's the steer-by-throttle that sets the pros apart.
Also these cars react well to engine braking. I've seen pros downshift past corner entry in a 6, use that downshift to finesse the balance, then power much harder and smoother out of the same corner vs. guys who only lean on the brakes.
Also these cars react well to engine braking. I've seen pros downshift past corner entry in a 6, use that downshift to finesse the balance, then power much harder and smoother out of the same corner vs. guys who only lean on the brakes.
08-24-2016, 01:58 PM
#49
^ pro's dont have to pay for engine and trans rebuilds too so they use 110% of the car...thats why PMNA suggest 40 hour rebuilds......
That was the biggest gripe from pro's from the 997-991 change was they no longer were able to engine brake at threshold braking with the paddles as it prevents overrevs....overrevs slow the cars down a lot transition and then have yo in the high torque curve range to throttle application
That was the biggest gripe from pro's from the 997-991 change was they no longer were able to engine brake at threshold braking with the paddles as it prevents overrevs....overrevs slow the cars down a lot transition and then have yo in the high torque curve range to throttle application
08-24-2016, 03:06 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
In fairness to good pro drivers, they are very good at making late, smooth down shifts in to corners which keeps the revs in the power band. They use resulting deceleration to get the car rotated faster. They are obviously off brakes earlier than amateurs. LSDs in these cars allows good mid-corner grip and early full throttle. Really sets the amateurs apart from pros. I lose lot more time through slower corners than faster corners anywhere compared to pros. So it's really not "***** to the walls" driving that makes the bigger difference.
08-25-2016, 01:40 AM
#53
I'm no pro but set a fair # of track records in my 6. Yes the car is not fully hooked up at limit, and car is dancing w/ throttle, but it's easier to do w/ inherent oversteer in the 6 than with understeer in the 7. If you're feeling hooked up and planted on entry, mid-corner, and exit, there's more speed left in the car :-)
I was 100% bone stock, stock springs, no games with the diff (never opened it other than the bolthole to drain and replace fluids), and most of my track records were with the stock non-adjustable Sachs shocks (though I did eventually go to 2-way adjustables).
I ran the exact same setup for most tracks, I'd regularly go 4 or 5 events with the only maintenance being brakes (pads, fluid, rotors if needed (went a long time when I started doing cryo treated slotted once cryo was confirmed to be SCCA legal) and oil and gearbox fluids every few events.
The maintenance and operating costs on the 7 are higher - I'm much more diligent in the 7, gearbox needs to be checked for metal every weekend, brakes are much more sensitive to pads and fluid condition, rotors (at least when in classes that require the stock drilled rotors) don't last nearly as long, car more sensitive to setup, etc.
I was 100% bone stock, stock springs, no games with the diff (never opened it other than the bolthole to drain and replace fluids), and most of my track records were with the stock non-adjustable Sachs shocks (though I did eventually go to 2-way adjustables).
I ran the exact same setup for most tracks, I'd regularly go 4 or 5 events with the only maintenance being brakes (pads, fluid, rotors if needed (went a long time when I started doing cryo treated slotted once cryo was confirmed to be SCCA legal) and oil and gearbox fluids every few events.
The maintenance and operating costs on the 7 are higher - I'm much more diligent in the 7, gearbox needs to be checked for metal every weekend, brakes are much more sensitive to pads and fluid condition, rotors (at least when in classes that require the stock drilled rotors) don't last nearly as long, car more sensitive to setup, etc.
08-25-2016, 07:03 AM
#54
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Once again, thank you for the excellent contributions! The task now is to get my GT3 sold so I can really start hunting properly! 996 still seems like the car for me, only to find a good one now...
08-25-2016, 12:30 PM
#55
IMO the 997 is harder to drive and therefore more rewarding, even so of the 991 Cup. Faster and more "fun" are different IMO....look at FIA GT3 cars, very fast but takes more skill to drive a 997 cup fast than it does one of those cars.
Like my first coach told me when i first started driving 911's on track..."If you can learn to drive these cars smooth and fast, you can then drive anything else fast"
When i drive mid engine race cars now, I smile at how easy they are to drive approaching the limit. and actually have to focus on slowing down my hands when catching a slide....
I would say go for a 997 Cup its more of a true race car IMO.
Like my first coach told me when i first started driving 911's on track..."If you can learn to drive these cars smooth and fast, you can then drive anything else fast"
When i drive mid engine race cars now, I smile at how easy they are to drive approaching the limit. and actually have to focus on slowing down my hands when catching a slide....
I would say go for a 997 Cup its more of a true race car IMO.
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tedean (09-28-2020)
08-25-2016, 12:59 PM
#56
Drifting
08-25-2016, 01:00 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
I think skypalace is spot on. This is my experience with 6 cup although I am not up to speed yet. Looking forward to getting in a 997 someday. Need to get faster in the 6 first. It is the last of old fashioned h pattern box factory built race cars.
08-25-2016, 08:35 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
That's a great lap time. At fast tracks like the Glen and Lime Rock, you can probably just drive by the book and keep the car happy and fast. But tracks where you come into really tight 2nd gear turns fast, there are things I have seen professionals do that make it tough for an amateur to match. It was a long time ago so I don't remember exactly. Dino Loles was great at that, I think he learned from Wolf and the other F-L pros, and he beat most of the 997 cups in his 996 cup in the early days of IMSA GT3 cup.
08-25-2016, 09:40 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
I'm no pro but set a fair # of track records in my 6. Yes the car is not fully hooked up at limit, and car is dancing w/ throttle, but it's easier to do w/ inherent oversteer in the 6 than with understeer in the 7. If you're feeling hooked up and planted on entry, mid-corner, and exit, there's more speed left in the car :-)
