6Cup Year 1 Observations
10-06-2013, 12:58 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
6Cup Year 1 Observations
Given the time of the year and many of the recent posts, I thought I would share some observations from my first year of cup ownership in attempt to help some folks who might be on the fence. Only one year of observation, so still a bit preliminary….
Summary
While I regret many things I’ve done over 12 years of racing, buying a 2005 Cup is NOT one of them. In short, driving “my cup” is literally the next best thing to…. Well, you get the idea….
Why a 6 Cup?
A few years ago, I got to race a 2007 7Cup for a few races after years of running a 944 NA. This was where the idea of cup ownership began. Nothing beats a factory engineered and built race car. A car designed for 24 hour duty is typically overbuilt for the sprint racing that I do. Also, having two small daughters, the safety of a factory car was a BIG deal (for doubters, see the CTC crash from yesterday’s VIR ALMS race where the driver walked away). Lastly, the concept of buying parts from a catalogue instead of everything being custom fabricated held a big appear. On the 6 vs. 7 debate, I personally like the satisfaction of rowing my own gears (even though the sequential is better for racing) and cost (6’s are quite a bit less than 7’s, although that is changing). Final reason was my math said that the Cup is not crazy costlier to operate than my ITS 944 and I’ll get a lot more “bang for the buck” (more on that below). Note the ITS car was a front running car, winning a lot of races with no expense spared and every rule exploited. As we all know, even if it’s a Spec Miata, is costs $ to win….
What did you buy?
After searching for a while, I bought a 2005 Cup which was a former TRG Grand-Am Car. It had history of running the Rolex 24 in 2005, along with 6 pro races, wining the Miami Grand Prix with Lally & Bunting. It also had a fresh PMNA engine & gear box and a straight / undamaged tub. However, it was cosmetically rough (cracked front nose, rough paint, marginal repair on rear quarter panels) and dirty inside and out. It’s a 20 foot looker, which as a racer, doesn’t bother me. The owner had no history or documentation, but I was able to piece together the history & documentation via phone calls with all previous owners, race shops and PMNA (who was extremely helpful). A lot of other cup owners and shops were very helpful in my journey. Before it hit the track, I had a pro-shop replace or rebuild all wear items to begin proper maintenance baseline and time measurement (wheel bearings, suspension links, lower control arms, black axles, AP brake rotors, etc.). With the combination of all the above, I felt I purchased the car “right.” Most importantly, like many race cars, it’s worth more in pieces than the purchase price, so with this logic, there was no downside on purchase price (other than capital being tied up for a while).
What are you doing with it?
I’m a grassroots guy and due to family and time constraints, I race at a local track, Waterford Hills, which follows a SCCA rulebook. Under the rule package, I’ve made a few mods and am running on R-compound tires, am racing in T1. Upon close inspection of what is allowed for a 996 under T1 (which is a lot), it’s basically a Grand-Am Cup car with metal doors (BTW, installing a CGT V10 would technically be legal…). In the mid-west, other possible “grassroots” bodies would be PCA and NASA. No personal desire at this time for IMSA or other semi-pro series due to family time constraints. As an aside, many would say running a cup on R-compound tires is heresy, but they work great are competitive for roughly 2 weekends (8 cycles) with careful tire management and rotation. As a reference, 255 front and 315 rear.
Is it hard to drive?
No, in many aspects, it’s easier than my 944. Power steering + ABS is awesome, it’s incredibly stable and easy to catch. However, this can change with different suspension set-ups. The Tilton clutch is awesome and like a rifle bolt action changing gears. No issues driving it in the paddock and I even drive it into the trailer. Only downside is that it’s very, very hot (first time I’ve even used a cool shirt and felt I needed it).
Do I need crew to operate?
No, however…. It ain’t easy. After years of being the driver, race engineer, mechanic, truck driver, I thought how hard could it be? While a 6cup is not a LeMans P-car requiring 5 guys to start it, she does chew up time between runs. Time consumers include, suspension inspections between runs (it’s kinda fast and I want to live), defuel to capture fuel burn, data download /analysis / Motec reset all are new items for me. Additionally, compared to my old 15” Fuchs, these big BBS rims and tires weigh a ton, so unloading tires from the rack and tire changes are a physical chore (offset somewhat by the use of air jacks). After the end of a weekend, I’m beat. Having a tire jockey helps and a data engineer is worth its weight in gold.
Do I need a mortgage to operate?
Controversial question with many opinions floating about. In my opinion, no you don’t need a mortgage, however, campaigning any Porsche to the front of any grid in any sanctioning body is pricy. With my car, I’m competitive, but I do take it easy on the engine and gearbox, shifting at 7500 or less depending on track location. Below is my observations & math (racers beware, these are number you may not want to see or know…)
Engine: 175 hours @ $25k = 175$/hr
Transmission: 175hrs @ $7500 = 43$/hr
Oil + All fluids: 2.5hrs @ $250 = 100$/hr
Rebuild black half shafts: 60hrs @ $1500 = 25$/hr
Front rotors rings (2pc AP racing, excludes hat) = 24 hours @ 695 = 29$/hr
Rear rotor rings (2pc AP racing, excludes hat) = 48 hours @ 427 = 9$/hr
Front pads: 10 hours @ 396 = 40$/hr
Rear pads: 20 hours @ 256 = 13$/hr
Wheel bearings: 30 hours @ 760 = 25$/hr
Tires: 15 total cycles (including practice) @ 20mins / cycl @ 1800 = 400$/hr
Fuel: 11 gal / hr @ 7 / gal = 77$/hr
Total op costs per hour = $903 / hour
This does not include any trackside support and is influenced by the amount of labor you do can do yourself (I do my own fluid & brake changes alone with other minor items). Alignments are a cost item I’ve missed, but they are included as part of a sponsorship package, so I don’t include them. Probably should include a clutch every couple of years. As a reference, my ITS 944 $552 / hour to run, based on 12 years of data.
Close
After one year, that’s my story and observations. Many other regulars on this forum have more data, more experience and are willing to share. While I have no regrets, the elusive “trailer queen” sometimes sound good, but not sure if I would drive it as hard. Always a tough call. If you are thinking about it, do it, but do it eyes wide open.
Summary
While I regret many things I’ve done over 12 years of racing, buying a 2005 Cup is NOT one of them. In short, driving “my cup” is literally the next best thing to…. Well, you get the idea….
Why a 6 Cup?
A few years ago, I got to race a 2007 7Cup for a few races after years of running a 944 NA. This was where the idea of cup ownership began. Nothing beats a factory engineered and built race car. A car designed for 24 hour duty is typically overbuilt for the sprint racing that I do. Also, having two small daughters, the safety of a factory car was a BIG deal (for doubters, see the CTC crash from yesterday’s VIR ALMS race where the driver walked away). Lastly, the concept of buying parts from a catalogue instead of everything being custom fabricated held a big appear. On the 6 vs. 7 debate, I personally like the satisfaction of rowing my own gears (even though the sequential is better for racing) and cost (6’s are quite a bit less than 7’s, although that is changing). Final reason was my math said that the Cup is not crazy costlier to operate than my ITS 944 and I’ll get a lot more “bang for the buck” (more on that below). Note the ITS car was a front running car, winning a lot of races with no expense spared and every rule exploited. As we all know, even if it’s a Spec Miata, is costs $ to win….
What did you buy?
After searching for a while, I bought a 2005 Cup which was a former TRG Grand-Am Car. It had history of running the Rolex 24 in 2005, along with 6 pro races, wining the Miami Grand Prix with Lally & Bunting. It also had a fresh PMNA engine & gear box and a straight / undamaged tub. However, it was cosmetically rough (cracked front nose, rough paint, marginal repair on rear quarter panels) and dirty inside and out. It’s a 20 foot looker, which as a racer, doesn’t bother me. The owner had no history or documentation, but I was able to piece together the history & documentation via phone calls with all previous owners, race shops and PMNA (who was extremely helpful). A lot of other cup owners and shops were very helpful in my journey. Before it hit the track, I had a pro-shop replace or rebuild all wear items to begin proper maintenance baseline and time measurement (wheel bearings, suspension links, lower control arms, black axles, AP brake rotors, etc.). With the combination of all the above, I felt I purchased the car “right.” Most importantly, like many race cars, it’s worth more in pieces than the purchase price, so with this logic, there was no downside on purchase price (other than capital being tied up for a while).
What are you doing with it?
I’m a grassroots guy and due to family and time constraints, I race at a local track, Waterford Hills, which follows a SCCA rulebook. Under the rule package, I’ve made a few mods and am running on R-compound tires, am racing in T1. Upon close inspection of what is allowed for a 996 under T1 (which is a lot), it’s basically a Grand-Am Cup car with metal doors (BTW, installing a CGT V10 would technically be legal…). In the mid-west, other possible “grassroots” bodies would be PCA and NASA. No personal desire at this time for IMSA or other semi-pro series due to family time constraints. As an aside, many would say running a cup on R-compound tires is heresy, but they work great are competitive for roughly 2 weekends (8 cycles) with careful tire management and rotation. As a reference, 255 front and 315 rear.
Is it hard to drive?
No, in many aspects, it’s easier than my 944. Power steering + ABS is awesome, it’s incredibly stable and easy to catch. However, this can change with different suspension set-ups. The Tilton clutch is awesome and like a rifle bolt action changing gears. No issues driving it in the paddock and I even drive it into the trailer. Only downside is that it’s very, very hot (first time I’ve even used a cool shirt and felt I needed it).
Do I need crew to operate?
No, however…. It ain’t easy. After years of being the driver, race engineer, mechanic, truck driver, I thought how hard could it be? While a 6cup is not a LeMans P-car requiring 5 guys to start it, she does chew up time between runs. Time consumers include, suspension inspections between runs (it’s kinda fast and I want to live), defuel to capture fuel burn, data download /analysis / Motec reset all are new items for me. Additionally, compared to my old 15” Fuchs, these big BBS rims and tires weigh a ton, so unloading tires from the rack and tire changes are a physical chore (offset somewhat by the use of air jacks). After the end of a weekend, I’m beat. Having a tire jockey helps and a data engineer is worth its weight in gold.
Do I need a mortgage to operate?
Controversial question with many opinions floating about. In my opinion, no you don’t need a mortgage, however, campaigning any Porsche to the front of any grid in any sanctioning body is pricy. With my car, I’m competitive, but I do take it easy on the engine and gearbox, shifting at 7500 or less depending on track location. Below is my observations & math (racers beware, these are number you may not want to see or know…)
Engine: 175 hours @ $25k = 175$/hr
Transmission: 175hrs @ $7500 = 43$/hr
Oil + All fluids: 2.5hrs @ $250 = 100$/hr
Rebuild black half shafts: 60hrs @ $1500 = 25$/hr
Front rotors rings (2pc AP racing, excludes hat) = 24 hours @ 695 = 29$/hr
Rear rotor rings (2pc AP racing, excludes hat) = 48 hours @ 427 = 9$/hr
Front pads: 10 hours @ 396 = 40$/hr
Rear pads: 20 hours @ 256 = 13$/hr
Wheel bearings: 30 hours @ 760 = 25$/hr
Tires: 15 total cycles (including practice) @ 20mins / cycl @ 1800 = 400$/hr
Fuel: 11 gal / hr @ 7 / gal = 77$/hr
Total op costs per hour = $903 / hour
This does not include any trackside support and is influenced by the amount of labor you do can do yourself (I do my own fluid & brake changes alone with other minor items). Alignments are a cost item I’ve missed, but they are included as part of a sponsorship package, so I don’t include them. Probably should include a clutch every couple of years. As a reference, my ITS 944 $552 / hour to run, based on 12 years of data.
Close
After one year, that’s my story and observations. Many other regulars on this forum have more data, more experience and are willing to share. While I have no regrets, the elusive “trailer queen” sometimes sound good, but not sure if I would drive it as hard. Always a tough call. If you are thinking about it, do it, but do it eyes wide open.
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purcell21 (07-09-2020)
10-06-2013, 05:37 PM
#5
Rennlist
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GREAT info! Thanks for the post.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
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10-06-2013, 08:53 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Very nice post...thanks for putting this together!!
Are you factoring the capital costs at zero due to resale value?
Are you factoring the capital costs at zero due to resale value?
10-06-2013, 10:01 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thanks for this information and experience. For me saftey has become my highest priority and it seems, within reason, the Cup is the most practical solution for this. Allan 
10-06-2013, 10:49 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Christian,
Great write up. Mirrors my experiences greatly (except I started with a well sorted and well maintained car. It only took two track sessions before the guy behind me sent me to the body shop for the first time)
From my point of view, a very realistic look at the maintenance costs. Interesting that the largest $ spent per hour is the tires. The more you win, the cheaper it gets.
Thanks
Ed
Great write up. Mirrors my experiences greatly (except I started with a well sorted and well maintained car. It only took two track sessions before the guy behind me sent me to the body shop for the first time)
From my point of view, a very realistic look at the maintenance costs. Interesting that the largest $ spent per hour is the tires. The more you win, the cheaper it gets.
Thanks
Ed
10-06-2013, 11:03 PM
#12
Drifting
Don't forget these are cheap tires he is running and he gets 15hc out of them.
Typical racer would use one new set slick EACH race weekend (and pratice on the set from last race weekend) I would adjust cost of tires to $2400/set on avg and then reduce to 8hc. More likely $600/hour for slicks at a minimum. Some guys use TWO sets per weekend, so make it $1200/hour for slicks.
Adjust the $903/hr to $1103/hr to $1703/hr (plus the clutch?!). Oh, and running slicks will wear out brakes a LOT faster. So raise the brake/hr cost as well...
Typical racer would use one new set slick EACH race weekend (and pratice on the set from last race weekend) I would adjust cost of tires to $2400/set on avg and then reduce to 8hc. More likely $600/hour for slicks at a minimum. Some guys use TWO sets per weekend, so make it $1200/hour for slicks.
Adjust the $903/hr to $1103/hr to $1703/hr (plus the clutch?!). Oh, and running slicks will wear out brakes a LOT faster. So raise the brake/hr cost as well...
10-06-2013, 11:40 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Don't forget these are cheap tires he is running and he gets 15hc out of them.
Typical racer would use one new set slick EACH race weekend (and pratice on the set from last race weekend) I would adjust cost of tires to $2400/set on avg and then reduce to 8hc. More likely $600/hour for slicks at a minimum. Some guys use TWO sets per weekend, so make it $1200/hour for slicks.
Adjust the $903/hr to $1103/hr to $1703/hr (plus the clutch?!). Oh, and running slicks will wear out brakes a LOT faster. So raise the brake/hr cost as well...
Typical racer would use one new set slick EACH race weekend (and pratice on the set from last race weekend) I would adjust cost of tires to $2400/set on avg and then reduce to 8hc. More likely $600/hour for slicks at a minimum. Some guys use TWO sets per weekend, so make it $1200/hour for slicks.
Adjust the $903/hr to $1103/hr to $1703/hr (plus the clutch?!). Oh, and running slicks will wear out brakes a LOT faster. So raise the brake/hr cost as well...
10-07-2013, 05:39 AM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Glad this was some help for a few folks. It was a great first year. BTW, forgot to mention, no new dents! You can see some the action (and me getting schooled on the last lap) here:
Ed: Amen, NASA wins help HUGE with the tire budget. I remember going 2 years with our buying tires, then the aero wars began and well,.... the rest is history. For guys running competitive PCA GTC3, tires are a bit nut. Unless one is a front running, finding cast offs from a pro team seems to make sense.
Phil: Running 1:14 flat at Waterford. I know there is a 1:12 in the car, even on the R-Compound (actually running Hoosier A6 - great at the start, hold on at the end!). Going up against local Detroit guys in Corvettes, one of which set the T1 lap record last weekend at 1:12.8. With he stock cup muffler, sound is no issue (the track is 75db at the property line). Although straight pipe do sound nice!
Ed: Amen, NASA wins help HUGE with the tire budget. I remember going 2 years with our buying tires, then the aero wars began and well,.... the rest is history. For guys running competitive PCA GTC3, tires are a bit nut. Unless one is a front running, finding cast offs from a pro team seems to make sense.
Phil: Running 1:14 flat at Waterford. I know there is a 1:12 in the car, even on the R-Compound (actually running Hoosier A6 - great at the start, hold on at the end!). Going up against local Detroit guys in Corvettes, one of which set the T1 lap record last weekend at 1:12.8. With he stock cup muffler, sound is no issue (the track is 75db at the property line). Although straight pipe do sound nice!