johnhb1234

Hi All,

As I live in Manhattan, it's been some time since I have owned a Saab Turbo with a manual shift and I currently rent cars when I need them. I will be moving in a few months for a new job opportunity and definitely want a Porsche. With apologies, I know most people have already decided on what car they want before they ask more detailed questions - I don't.

1. I drive well but not enough these days to say I'm at the level of a Porsche enthusiast. I hear the Cayman is a better handling car and it's easier to get the most out of the car. I'm not sure at my level of driving, which could improve with some driving school courses, that it would make a big difference. Also, I could afford a fully loaded 911 but due to charity donations, etc., I'm not sure I would want to knowing I'm throwing money at myself when someone in bad circumstances simply wants to survive. Since I love sports, I could easier stomach paying for performance over luxury options but at my level of driving I'm not sure if it makes a difference and what performance options are good enough. A base Cayman or 911 are probably more than fast enough for me. I would look at those cars and be happy to put on some performance options.

First big question - a base Cayman with a few options like sport vectoring, PASM, etc. what is the minimum of important performance features vs. a 911 with the minimum performance features that I would want vs. perhaps a used 911 991 which might have a few extra features that I don't need but it would come in not much more than a Cayman. So would a 2012 - 2014 911 with some performance features be a better choice than a new Cayman?

2. I am single but 50 years old and really enjoyed the feel of a manual shifting car. However, in the Northern, VA area of Washington, DC the traffic is very bad. I'm just not sure if the PDK will give me the same "feel" as a manual and if I could live with a manual in traffic. I know the PDK shifts faster than I do, I"m just not sure if it "feels" the same as a manual and will be as gratifying to drive.

3. What does everyone think about the rear axle steering available on the new 911? You need at least a 911 S to get this. I suspect it will add more to handling than 4-wheel drive.

4. How important is 4-wheel drive on a 911 these days? I only ski a few times a year but it does rain quite a bit. Does a Cayman without 4-wheel drive handle better than a 911 with 4-wheel drive in normal driving and how does it stack up in bad weather?

5. $3000 for 18-way electric seats?!?! This is an example of a non-performance option that I object to. Can I get a $20 low back rest to stick on the seat if it's not perfect for me or does this really make a difference if the height and bottom seat angle are a bit off for me? What could I do to compensate with just 4-way seats? I could see paying $800 for the Sport Seats plus because this adds to my driving experience - do you think this is worth it?

Anything else that would add to the performance and driving experience? I almost feel like a 2016 Cayman GTS does a lot for features or a used 911 GTS, any thoughts?

6. Do you like the idea of the new turbo engine vs. the older engine? So I would have to pay $3000 approximately for a special exhaust system to get the Porsche sound enhanced because Porsche has decided to get a turbo engine? It sounds like the customers are bank rolling Porsche's decision to do this.

I do have a good attitude and don't want people to think I don't have the right spirit/attitude in asking these questions. I'm just too new to the car to know the difference and would like to walk into the dealer having narrowed down some of my choices.

Thanks!

extanker

scroll down or search ....there is a thread on going......a base cay with pdk will fit you but not in the winter

RanMac

There's alot going on here... you live in NY but I'm going to assume your mention northern VA because that's where your future job opportunity is.. I live in the DC Metro so I'm very familiar with the traffic...

1. this is purely preference... however a fully loaded 911 is not comparable to a base cayman... or any cayman for that matter... and a fully loaded 911 is a subcategory on it's own (Turbo, Turbo S, R, GT3 RS)...

2. Traffic is pretty intense here... you need a passion to drive to daily a manual... I'm kinda backwards in that regard... my S4 is a manual (daily) and my 911 turbo is a tiptronic... stick with the PDK if it's your daily... once again preference...

3. 4 wheel steering is a nice to have but don't let that break a car deal... If i had to make a choice I would take the awd over 4 wheel steering... I think the benefits of awd are more noticeable than the 4 wheel steering...

4. there's nothing like usable power... I find that the awd systems are better at getting the power to the ground... regardless of snow.... more stability... I accept the added weight... once again this is a daily driver... if you were talking bout an exclusive track car then some more consideration is necessary...

5. 18 way seat my be an option that's not hard to find.... especially in the pre-owned market... $20 back rest may be slightly tacky on a premium car....

6. I like forced induction!!! so Turbo old and new is fine by me... sounds like the new turbo shows minimal lag making it feel naturally aspirated... spend for the exhaust if you want some sound... yes Porsche is a business and the customers bankroll that's how they stay in business :-)

enjoy and good luck of your new job!!!

~ran

zedcat

A few test drives will help narrow things if you haven't already. My 2c - get a 981 (NA flat six) PDK with sport chrono. Boxster or Cayman, base or S whatever your preference. Try to find a CPO with low mileage. Consider joining your local PCA, do some DEs or auto-x or tours. Then go from there. I started with a 911 (997 C2S) but then had a major relocation/ job change. I didn't want to tie up too much in a car and got a base 987.2 Cayman. That was a great car and a lot of fun. Maybe you'll decide you don't like the Porsche world but you may also find yourself trying to get on multiple dealer lists for an allocation for the next GT3/ GT4/ RS.......

scottjua

After owning my first car with paddles.... I never want one again. Manual all the way... there's just too much tactile involvement lost. You really lose connection to the experience... and I don't even mean driving hard or at the track. Just daily puttering around... it's just so boring.

Today's clutches are all so easy to operate, it's a non-issue for traffic to me.

rusnak

I have an '11 Cayman S with 6-speed manual, 320 HP (claimed by Porsche, limited slip differential, PASM, Sport Chrono, 19" wheels, and sport seats, aero package, etc.

I think this is the type of Cayman that you are trying to decide on. What I can say is that the 6 speed has you shifting all of the time. Even with the 6, the clutch/ throttle balance from a stop is tricky. The shifter balks too. I can't imagine wanting PDK though, not in this car. The engine pulls very strongly, and is a joy. This is a car that needs to be kept as light as possible. The seats are not very comfortable on trips over 2 hrs.

I have read that there are better shift cables which allow adjustment. I might try those after I figure out how to remove the center console. After removing the airbox blocking plate, the throttle response is much better. I have 33K miles on mine. It uses a surprisingly large amount of gas for such a small motor.

I have no experience in the new 911s, so I'm no help there. To me, a fully loaded Cayman is still a great bargain, and can be made to be a sleeper, so to speak. I'd frankly look at a GTS if I were to do it over again.

Archimedes

Just one comment. I have the 4 way sports seats plus in my Carrera S and I would much rather have the 18 ways. The only positive of the 4 ways is that they slide fore and aft manually, which I find easier than using the electric motor. But the lack of adjustability bugs me a bit. They're not awful by any stretch, but the 18 ways are much better IMO and worth the money.

Bizzaam

johnhb1234,

I'm sort of in the market too. Here's what I discovered and worked for me so far. Find a local PCA group that meets up in town or somewhat nearby. There is a local Porsche cars and coffee in Raleigh, NC (where I live) that meets every Saturday morning. Talking with them is a very wise idea. Since I've joined the forum and met the local PCA guys, I will have to say that I love the community Porsche owners have. Ask them all of your questions.

As I put in another thread, I have been fortunate enough to test drive a Cayman base and 2015 Cayman S (both PDK). When I drove the base model, I was a bit nervous especially since I own a 115 HP 2004 Jetta. My foot was shaking as I hit the pedal like I was a 14 year old driving for their first time. I had never driven a "sporty" car before and definitely never a sports car. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to punch the gas. When I hit the Interstate highway on-ramp, I was behind the slowest cars to ever exist in North Carolina. I thought, "The one time I get to drive a sports car and I couldn't experience an on ramp properly."

About a month later was when I drove the S. This time, the on ramp was mine. The stoplight turned green, and I punched the gas. The car accelerated and I could feel the G's pushing me back in the seat like the car wanted me to let go of the steering wheel. As I got halfway up the medium length on-ramp, I saw I was doing 84 MPH. I never wanted to stop driving that car. I was smiling big all day long.

Everyone's experience will be different. Talk and research can take you so far. You can always like the way something is on "paper" but not like it when you drive it. Test driving is what you need to do. You could love the way the car looks and not like certain aspects of the drive. You could also test drive and find something in the car you never knew existed. The Cayman S has seduced me. For me, it's just a matter of time before I buy. I've got just a tiny bit of debt to pay off and then hopefully I can start saving over the next two years.

Even though I don't have DC type traffic in Raleigh, both Porsche dealerships in the area agree that with stop-and-go commuter traffic they recommend the PDK. Then again, you may love the manual. Go drive a manual and a PDK in both model of cars. Start with a base model then work your way up to driving the S.

Hemisedan

[QUOTE=Bizzaam;13464847

Everyone's experience will be different. Talk and research can take you so far. You can always like the way something is on "paper" but not like it when you drive it. Test driving is what you need to do. You could love the way the car looks and not like certain aspects of the drive. You could also test drive and find something in the car you never knew existed. The Cayman S has seduced me. For me, it's just a matter of time before I buy. I've got just a tiny bit of debt to pay off and then hopefully I can start saving over the next two[/QUOTE]

I'm in a similar situation as you, as I've about two+ years on my BMW m235i lease. It's a really nice car, but it's just not me. I've started looking at the 718 Cauman that's just coming out. No dealers for Porsche here in central Iowa, closest dealer is 140 miles away, but I don't worry sbout dealers, except to buy. What are the experiences ditch dealers that might work with you on a deal? Granted, I'm two years away from purchasing, but I'd like to know where the good guys are. Also, I'd look strong at doing the Atlanta delivery, so where I buy doesn't make much of a difference. Anyone have you any ideas? Looking at these right now, I'd probably go with a pretty well optioned base 718, although my heart says an S version. Thanks to sell that can help me.

DaveCarrera4

I have a 2002 Turbo and a 2009 Cayman S. Love them both and paid the same for both. I'd give the turbo a bit of the edge though. It is a real beast compared to the CS.

Bizzaam

From what I can gather during the purchase and delivery process at my dealer, you can order something, have it sent to Atlanta and then have it delivered to your dealership. While I'm not 100% sure on that, it may be worth a day trip to the dealer to speak with them. The dealer I go to in town is very relaxed and not like the mainstream dealerships like Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. that have four salesmen pouncing on you as soon as you get out of your big toe out of the vehicle. I've heard of people driving all the way from Virginia Beach to Raleigh, NC just to talk with the dealer to possibly buy a car.

There is a general consensus at the local cars and coffee group in town. We think a person that is interested in buying a Porsche is going to know what they want, will be well informed, and will be patient and/or smart with their purchase. They aren't the average consumer that will take whatever is in front of them, like most of the people around you on the highway. After I decided to start my path to Porsche, I became aware of how most everyone else around me on the highway was complacent and settled on whatever they drove. It is tantalizing now that I've driven three Porsches that I don't have any passing power in my Jetta.

These are just my personal experiences. Even though I'm about two years out, I visit the dealership once or twice a month for multiple reasons:
1) I get to see awesome cars.
2) I get to talk to the dealership employees and form relationships with them. A lot of the time the guys are glad to see you just because it gives them something to do since Porsche doesn't have a high turnover of sales compared to the mainstream dealers. The guys I speak with are genuinely interested in you as a person and not just because you might make a purchase. Humanizing is always a good way to get a deal. You're a person, not just a customer.
3) I decide to test drive now and then to keep me inspired.
4) My dealer has a list of what I would want in my dream Cayman. I can get good answers, information, & updates regarding what I'm looking for, finding out what may be coming up for sale soon.

Today, I was fortunate enough to test drive a 718 Boxster S. I had been thinking about it since they're new and everyone seems to have varying opinions of them. The drive did not disappoint. My I-40 on-ramp experience was a giddy-as-a-school-girl kind of fun as ever. Kim, the salesman, was courteous knowledgeable and humorous during the drive. I told him I was going to save up for a year or two for the car. He told me about how he had a heart attack last week and had surgery for stints to be put in. He said, "Wait two years? That's the worst thing you can do." I asked why and he replied with, "You're missing out on two years of fun and excitement. Before you know it you may not be able to get a Porsche." After him having a heart attack, I can understand his logic of life's too short, but I digress.

The upgraded features of the 718 were very nice. The handling was wonderful as is to be expected. It didn't have the same sound as the six cylinder, which I personally like better but it was still a great drive. I have some external pressure from other people telling me to test drive other brands but I can't bring myself to it. I can't imagine driving another brand or wanting to ever again.

As far as getting a good deal, I have heard that most guys are able to negotiate 5 - 6.5% off the sticker price at the Porsche dealership. Never be afraid to walk away even if you want it. I have no idea what kind of discount it would be if you purchase from a non-Porsche dealership. I personally plan on buying at Southpoint Porsche because they are in town and so I can get the CPO warranty, which is the original warranty plus two years and 50K miles up to a total of 100K miles whichever comes first. I would imagine that your financial situation and negotiating skills play a part in it too. As I've said before, everyone's experience will be different. I've found those percentages numerous times around the forums when people mention pricing and bargaining. Try driving a 2014 - 2016 base/S and a 718 base/S to cover all your bases.

Hemisedan

Thanks, this is what I've been looking for, reaction go test drives. As I said before, there's no Porsche dealer here in Des Moines as the dealer we had, lost the Gracie's several years ago. Omaha is the closest or Dsvenport the other direction. No test drives, in other words.

As for Atlanta delivery: I'd just pick the car in Atlanta, just like I did with my current BMW and picking it up in Greenviille, SC. They have their own race track there too. Just pick the car up there, then have fun driving it home on a break in drive. Anyway, can't wait to actually see a 2017 Porsche 718 coupe.

Bizzaam

You may want to go to the Atlanta Porsche Experience Center just to have a day of fun and test drive all at once. I hear it's a couple hundred bucks for several hours of driving whatever car(s) you want. My local dealer also offers to install a clear bra for a fee before "delivering" your vehicle to you. It's a great investment in the first place and it can be in your financed payment. The upside to this is you don't have to pay tax on it after you purchase your vehicle. If anything, reach out to Woody Clark, Kim Smith, or Tom Toos to talk to them. They are all great guys and would be willing to answer any kinds of questions you have. You can tell them Craig (the guy that is looking for the 2014 sapphire blue metallic Cayman S) sent you.

https://www.porschedriving.com/centers/Atlanta
https://southpoint.porschedealer.com/about_us/team.php

Hemisedan

[QUOTE=Bizzaam;13473926]You may want to go to the Atlanta Porsche Experience Center just to have a day of fun and test drive all at once. I hear it's a couple hundred bucks for several hours of driving whatever car(s) you want. My local dealer also offers to install a clear bra for a fee before "delivering" your vehicle to you. It's a great investment in the first place and it can be in your financed payment. The upside to this is you don't have to pay tax on it after you purchase your vehicle. If anything, reach out to Woody Clark, Kim Smith, or Tom Toos to talk to them. They are all great guys and would be willing to answer any kinds of questions you have. You can tell them Craig (the guy that is looking for the 2014 sapphire blue metallic Cayman S) sent you.

[From what I hear the Atlanta Delivery is a no charge deal, just like BMW was for Greenville. BMW's was a bit better deal, including a night's stay and dinner, but the main reason for a delivery like this is that one can buy the car anywhere in the country and just have it delivered to Atlanta.

You mention those guys Craig, Woody, Kim and Tom but from where? I will be more than willing to listen to just about anyone, from anywhere, but the deal they offer talks. You said that your dealer offers a FREE clear bra. That's nice, about ?$600 installed around here, but still nice. I had that on my first MINI JCW and it did help, but I didn't like the edge, half way up the hood.

Thanks for your ideas, this is what I'm looking for.

Bizzaam

Correction, the clear bra is for a FEE. I think for a Cayman it is around $2000 for the entire vehicle, installed. Those guys I mentioned are at Southpoint Porsche in Durham, NC. I attached a few links in my last reply but they didn't show up.

https://southpoint.porschedealer.com/about_us/team.php
https://www.porschedriving.com/centers/Atlanta