Is driving a manual more dangerous?
07-26-2015, 03:42 PM
#1
Track Day
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Is driving a manual more dangerous?
No I'm not trolling. As a manual noob I'm really curious because I saw a race where a guy messed up his shift and locked the rear wheels and spun out. I imagine doing this in a turn on a mountain pass with no guard rail and the prospect of dying in the event of a missed shift is freaky. Or is it not the case?
07-26-2015, 04:00 PM
#2
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Sure, shifting in a curve is inducing a weight transfer into the car and that can cause a spin. Just lifting the accelerator can do the same. Basic rule is to end any shifting ahead of turn in.
Plus some guys ip will argue about heel-toe and rev matching (which IS helpful if you mastered it and your pedals are set up for it), funny that only people in the U.S. Get excited about that topic, over here most if not all instructors I've worked with just said ignore heel-toe, the synchronisation will just work fine...
Plus some guys ip will argue about heel-toe and rev matching (which IS helpful if you mastered it and your pedals are set up for it), funny that only people in the U.S. Get excited about that topic, over here most if not all instructors I've worked with just said ignore heel-toe, the synchronisation will just work fine...
07-26-2015, 04:31 PM
#3
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What if you mess up the shift just prior to the turn and lock up the wheels (I think what happened was over downshifting) going into the turn? I think that's how it happened when I saw it. He wasn't able to complete the turn because he was wobbling back and forth with locked up wheels.
07-26-2015, 04:35 PM
#4
yes, a case could be made that a manual is more dangerous in the context you described. Also it is possible to mechanically over-rev the motor with a manual. That said, for a skilled driver I don't think the danger is that significant. For a manual noob you would want to develop the skill in a safe environment and when on a street or road where something bad can happen take it down a few 10ths to give yourself some margin. I do think well executed rev matching is easier on the whole drivetrain (yes in the U. S.!) but I also know instructors that don't bother with it. I try to do it but don't always get it right. Have a track buddy with a Cayman GTS with auto rev matching. I told him he was cheating!
07-30-2015, 07:52 PM
#6
Once you learn to drive a manual it's extremely exciting and rewarding and if anything I feel that it's safer because it keeps me more aware of what's happening than driving an automatic/dual clutch.
I drove a manual Cayman S over the speed limit on curvy mountain roads and never had any problem. The safest thing is to brake then downshift.
I also drove on a track for the 1st time recently and didn't have any issues with upshifting, although it took me a while to learn heel-toe. If you're first learning to drive a manual get plenty of practice learning to start the call without stalling and getting the feel for how far to lift the clutch before you need to give it gas.
I drove a manual Cayman S over the speed limit on curvy mountain roads and never had any problem. The safest thing is to brake then downshift.
I also drove on a track for the 1st time recently and didn't have any issues with upshifting, although it took me a while to learn heel-toe. If you're first learning to drive a manual get plenty of practice learning to start the call without stalling and getting the feel for how far to lift the clutch before you need to give it gas.
07-30-2015, 08:17 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Riding a bicycle is dangerous at first too. So, you take it easy at first learn how to work shifter/clutch properly and it won't be any more dangerous than an automatic. Just different...and more fun!!
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08-05-2015, 08:19 PM
#8
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What if you mess up the shift just prior to the turn and lock up the wheels (I think what happened was over downshifting) going into the turn? I think that's how it happened when I saw it. He wasn't able to complete the turn because he was wobbling back and forth with locked up wheels.
Scenario #1 - you somehow engage the wrong gear while driving too fast on a no-guardrail mountain pass. You pop the clutch (as apparently that's what you do when you road-race on mountain passes) and your wheels lock. You fly over the edge out of control as the reality is you never were IN control.
Scenario #2 - you somehow engage the wrong gear while driving too fast on a no-guardrail mountain pass. You slowly engage the clutch (as that is how to drive) and immediately feel the revs climb and the engine braking. You PUSH THE CLUTCH BACK IN and shift to the correct gear. You DON'T fly over the edge out of control.
Manual transmission lesson over.
Last edited by Gary R.; 08-06-2015 at 09:42 AM.
08-06-2015, 02:43 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Sure, shifting in a curve is inducing a weight transfer into the car and that can cause a spin. Just lifting the accelerator can do the same. Basic rule is to end any shifting ahead of turn in. Plus some guys ip will argue about heel-toe and rev matching (which IS helpful if you mastered it and your pedals are set up for it), funny that only people in the U.S. Get excited about that topic, over here most if not all instructors I've worked with just said ignore heel-toe, the synchronisation will just work fine...
08-06-2015, 12:56 PM
#11
There is more possibly of 'danger' falling asleep sitting behind an automatic, than there is rowing the gears with a clutch, not paddles, IMHO. 
08-07-2015, 02:27 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
With all due respect, double clutching back in the day is what made shifting smoother until full synchronized transmissions came about. The second part of the double clutch method, ie heel toe rev matching is what makes a smooth settled gear change for the chassis. Synchronized gears do not, on their own, substitute proper heel toe. Double clutching has nothing to do with younger drivers, but older transmissions.
