Newbie help: Cayman R vs 981 Cayman S or GTS
12-02-2014, 01:55 PM
#1
Newbie help: Cayman R vs 981 Cayman S or GTS
Need some opinions.
I'm excited to be moving over to the Porsche side for my next track toy. I'm coming from the Z06 world, so I realize HP/TQ will be completely different. However, handling should be much much better. I'm excited to try a mid engine car on the track. Two questions:
1. After lots of research, I'm coming to the experts. Cayman R or 981 model S or GTS? I don't really care for the bells and whistles. Strictly performance. Brakes, suspension, trans, engine, etc... I will probably run Michelin Cup Tires on the track with sticky track pads.
2. PDK or manual? Trans, I've always loved a manual, but guessing the PDK is quicker on the track. In a PDK, I would want full control though and not sure this trans allows for that. I seriously think I might miss the heal-toe work of a manual, but if it meant several seconds improvement on most tracks if might be worth the loss.
Thanks for your help! I will hopefully be showing some new to me pics soon.
I'm excited to be moving over to the Porsche side for my next track toy. I'm coming from the Z06 world, so I realize HP/TQ will be completely different. However, handling should be much much better. I'm excited to try a mid engine car on the track. Two questions:
1. After lots of research, I'm coming to the experts. Cayman R or 981 model S or GTS? I don't really care for the bells and whistles. Strictly performance. Brakes, suspension, trans, engine, etc... I will probably run Michelin Cup Tires on the track with sticky track pads.
2. PDK or manual? Trans, I've always loved a manual, but guessing the PDK is quicker on the track. In a PDK, I would want full control though and not sure this trans allows for that. I seriously think I might miss the heal-toe work of a manual, but if it meant several seconds improvement on most tracks if might be worth the loss.
Thanks for your help! I will hopefully be showing some new to me pics soon.
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bsmith40 (08-03-2019)
12-02-2014, 02:26 PM
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My impression is that the Cayman R and 981CS are pretty equal in performance, Motortrend's tame racing driver got the 981CS around Laguna Seca about 1/3rd of a second faster. I reckon the GTS should be a half second or so faster than that.
The 981 has more creature comforts and is bigger, but about the same weight as it has lots of Aluminium bits. The 981 Sport suspension is supposedly the same as the Cayman R suspension. The Cayman R is the first Porsche which caught my attention, the 981CS looks "better" in a lot of ways, particularly if you're interested in a daily driver (as am I). It is a bit on the big side.
PDK allows almost full manual control. The only thing it will do unbidden is change down if the revs fall too low, that's probably not a problem on track. It'll bounce off the limiter all day at the top end, unless you have it in kick down. So you really want to get used to the kick down switch. I have a few notes about using the PDK in on track here: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11838941
I was experimenting with using Sport+ auto and not using the paddles. Using the paddles its a bit difficult to arrange a perfect upshift, either leaving revs unused or bouncing off the limiter. Its a lot more efficient than a manual as it allows you to have upshifts where the power is hardly interrupted at all, then it gives you all the power which would have been lost by the interruption as a kick in the back. It maybe slightly less involving to use the PDK on the track, but it does allow you to make shifts you might not otherwise have bothered with, its definitely faster. On the street I think the PDK is the best manual you can buy, on track I'm still not sure, but it is easier (if that's a plus) and faster.
The 981 has more creature comforts and is bigger, but about the same weight as it has lots of Aluminium bits. The 981 Sport suspension is supposedly the same as the Cayman R suspension. The Cayman R is the first Porsche which caught my attention, the 981CS looks "better" in a lot of ways, particularly if you're interested in a daily driver (as am I). It is a bit on the big side.
PDK allows almost full manual control. The only thing it will do unbidden is change down if the revs fall too low, that's probably not a problem on track. It'll bounce off the limiter all day at the top end, unless you have it in kick down. So you really want to get used to the kick down switch. I have a few notes about using the PDK in on track here: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11838941
I was experimenting with using Sport+ auto and not using the paddles. Using the paddles its a bit difficult to arrange a perfect upshift, either leaving revs unused or bouncing off the limiter. Its a lot more efficient than a manual as it allows you to have upshifts where the power is hardly interrupted at all, then it gives you all the power which would have been lost by the interruption as a kick in the back. It maybe slightly less involving to use the PDK on the track, but it does allow you to make shifts you might not otherwise have bothered with, its definitely faster. On the street I think the PDK is the best manual you can buy, on track I'm still not sure, but it is easier (if that's a plus) and faster.
12-02-2014, 02:26 PM
#3
i came to po after 30 years of corvettes ,my last was a c6 z but it was time for me to slow down.....
i sure got my wish with a po.
they are over priced and under powered. road test them well before you buy. they are a well made car but NOT wallet friendly like the chevy for track use/parts.
i sure got my wish with a po.they are over priced and under powered. road test them well before you buy. they are a well made car but NOT wallet friendly like the chevy for track use/parts.
12-02-2014, 02:43 PM
#4
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Also take into account if you plan to tune the car - the new 981 ECUs are encrypted and currently can not take a tune - the work around is a piggyback unit but that's less than ideal. The 987.2 can be tuned, and since the 9A1 engine is almost identical between cars ends up performing a hair better than its 981 brethren if you go that route.
Brake pads in the 987 are easier to change as they come out like toast from a toaster after the spring clip is removed, while the new 981 requires caliper removal to access the pads.
Beyond those minor differences I agree with the above post, the 981 makes a better DD. That said I was in this exact same predicament a month ago and pulled the trigger on a Cayman R.
EDIT: Oh, if you do go 981, the GTS gets my vote for sure. Having been in one on track, the options it comes bundled with you would want anyway so the cost difference is minimal if not a savings. PSE is a great compromise exhaust for a street car as it sounds great when desired but makes no more power than stock, the PTV is great, and the sport (non-pasm) suspension (similar to the cayman R setup) gets my vote for track, though local road conditions/street use might warrant PASM.
Brake pads in the 987 are easier to change as they come out like toast from a toaster after the spring clip is removed, while the new 981 requires caliper removal to access the pads.
Beyond those minor differences I agree with the above post, the 981 makes a better DD. That said I was in this exact same predicament a month ago and pulled the trigger on a Cayman R.
EDIT: Oh, if you do go 981, the GTS gets my vote for sure. Having been in one on track, the options it comes bundled with you would want anyway so the cost difference is minimal if not a savings. PSE is a great compromise exhaust for a street car as it sounds great when desired but makes no more power than stock, the PTV is great, and the sport (non-pasm) suspension (similar to the cayman R setup) gets my vote for track, though local road conditions/street use might warrant PASM.
12-02-2014, 03:01 PM
#5
Thanks for the info! I guess the answer is to go test drive both and figure it out regarding the trans type, if possible. For the price of the CR, I guess it's simple to get the next generation CS or GTS model. I loved the idea of the CR and it sounds like the Cayman GT4 should be an animal. Decisions!!! lol
My impression is that the Cayman R and 981CS are pretty equal in performance, Motortrend's tame racing driver got the 981CS around Laguna Seca about 1/3rd of a second faster. I reckon the GTS should be a half second or so faster than that.
The 981 has more creature comforts and is bigger, but about the same weight as it has lots of Aluminium bits. The 981 Sport suspension is supposedly the same as the Cayman R suspension. The Cayman R is the first Porsche which caught my attention, the 981CS looks "better" in a lot of ways, particularly if you're interested in a daily driver (as am I). It is a bit on the big side.
PDK allows almost full manual control. The only thing it will do unbidden is change down if the revs fall too low, that's probably not a problem on track. It'll bounce off the limiter all day at the top end, unless you have it in kick down. So you really want to get used to the kick down switch. I have a few notes about using the PDK in on track here: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11838941
I was experimenting with using Sport+ auto and not using the paddles. Using the paddles its a bit difficult to arrange a perfect upshift, either leaving revs unused or bouncing off the limiter. Its a lot more efficient than a manual as it allows you to have upshifts where the power is hardly interrupted at all, then it gives you all the power which would have been lost by the interruption as a kick in the back. It maybe slightly less involving to use the PDK on the track, but it does allow you to make shifts you might not otherwise have bothered with, its definitely faster. On the street I think the PDK is the best manual you can buy, on track I'm still not sure, but it is easier (if that's a plus) and faster.
The 981 has more creature comforts and is bigger, but about the same weight as it has lots of Aluminium bits. The 981 Sport suspension is supposedly the same as the Cayman R suspension. The Cayman R is the first Porsche which caught my attention, the 981CS looks "better" in a lot of ways, particularly if you're interested in a daily driver (as am I). It is a bit on the big side.
PDK allows almost full manual control. The only thing it will do unbidden is change down if the revs fall too low, that's probably not a problem on track. It'll bounce off the limiter all day at the top end, unless you have it in kick down. So you really want to get used to the kick down switch. I have a few notes about using the PDK in on track here: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11838941
I was experimenting with using Sport+ auto and not using the paddles. Using the paddles its a bit difficult to arrange a perfect upshift, either leaving revs unused or bouncing off the limiter. Its a lot more efficient than a manual as it allows you to have upshifts where the power is hardly interrupted at all, then it gives you all the power which would have been lost by the interruption as a kick in the back. It maybe slightly less involving to use the PDK on the track, but it does allow you to make shifts you might not otherwise have bothered with, its definitely faster. On the street I think the PDK is the best manual you can buy, on track I'm still not sure, but it is easier (if that's a plus) and faster.
12-02-2014, 03:48 PM
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EDIT: Oh, if you do go 981, the GTS gets my vote for sure. Having been in one on track, the options it comes bundled with you would want anyway so the cost difference is minimal if not a savings. PSE is a great compromise exhaust for a street car as it sounds great when desired but makes no more power than stock, the PTV is great, and the sport (non-pasm) suspension (similar to the cayman R setup) gets my vote for track, though local road conditions/street use might warrant PASM.
I don't want the PSE, I don't like it on the street, I prefer something a little more muted, the standard exhaust sound great. It also causes problems with sound at the track. At my first track day in the Cayman (at Laguna Seca, 90dB) I was running with a guy in a GTS (with PSE) who was getting flagged for sound, I saw him again on Friday, he had some plumbing attached to his exhaust to make sound a Laguna. PSE Off is more noisy than regular exhaust.
If you're getting a GTS, PASM comes for free, X73 (sport suspension) is a zero cost options, which is a bad deal as you're paying for PASM, but only getting X73.
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12-02-2014, 05:06 PM
#8
Cayman R. Buy some 18" wheels and you are good to go. Just make sure to find one with the sport bucket seats. It will be $10k - $20k less than a new one. Transmission is a personal preference - auto or manual, you decide.
12-02-2014, 05:14 PM
#9
This might be because of the steering and that the cars I've seen weighed, although the R is supposed to be ~50lb lighter than the 981S, the scales have said closer to ~100lb.
Subjective preference only you can decide.
12-02-2014, 06:06 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Drove a 90db day at LS yesterday with the PSE off on my Cayman R and passed sound no problem. I'm hammered all the way up the hill to just past the bridge so I don't think the car can get any louder.
Interesting that a GTS wouldn't pass, there was also a 14 CS driving with PSE off and he passed as well. We were both talking about running a late lap with PSE on just to see if our cars might pass.
In the end I decided against it. The track is getting enough static from Pasadera and the other neighborhoods around there, no sense contributing any more noise then necessary even if I can get away with it.
I test drove a 14 CS before I got the CR, felt like a much bigger car. CR feels like a go Kart.
Agree with Bill about the GT2 seats, for a somewhat dedicated track car those alone made the decision easy.
Interesting that a GTS wouldn't pass, there was also a 14 CS driving with PSE off and he passed as well. We were both talking about running a late lap with PSE on just to see if our cars might pass.
In the end I decided against it. The track is getting enough static from Pasadera and the other neighborhoods around there, no sense contributing any more noise then necessary even if I can get away with it.
I test drove a 14 CS before I got the CR, felt like a much bigger car. CR feels like a go Kart.
Agree with Bill about the GT2 seats, for a somewhat dedicated track car those alone made the decision easy.
12-02-2014, 06:15 PM
#12
Buckets can be hard to find, can always go Recaro Profi, or Profi XL if you're larger,
comfort of the buckets but with better lateral support, can code out seat airbag with Pro Durametric.
Z06 is faster no doubt, R is cheaper to run.
comfort of the buckets but with better lateral support, can code out seat airbag with Pro Durametric.
Z06 is faster no doubt, R is cheaper to run.
12-02-2014, 07:32 PM
#13
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Hi Chris, 2 weeks ago it was exactly the same question for me. Test drove a 981Boxster S (no Cayman available, the Boxster is a good proxy), was first in line at my Porsche dealer for a GT4. Then I saw a Cayman R mit PDK, bucket seats and Spyder rims priced at c. $65k. 20k miles on it, new tires, Porsche Approved warranty till 03/2016 etc. Called the dealer virtually seconds after he posted the car on the web and test drove it a week ago.
I felt the 987CR is more engaging than the 981 platform. It felt more special to me and my wife said exactly the same. Looks gorgeous! A new 981GTS is here at c. $110k with a decent spec, GT 4 will probably be 10-15k more at least.
Instant love with the CR and financially sensible, 3-4 years down the road I can sell it without a big loss and buy a new toy. Money saved will be spend on some mods (roll cage, 4-point Schroth harness, sticky tires,...) and track days.
You really need to test drive, but to me the 981 was more clinical (don't get me wrong, a wonderful car!) and the 987 more old school and dated in a lovely way.
Best
Sven
I felt the 987CR is more engaging than the 981 platform. It felt more special to me and my wife said exactly the same. Looks gorgeous! A new 981GTS is here at c. $110k with a decent spec, GT 4 will probably be 10-15k more at least.
Instant love with the CR and financially sensible, 3-4 years down the road I can sell it without a big loss and buy a new toy. Money saved will be spend on some mods (roll cage, 4-point Schroth harness, sticky tires,...) and track days.
You really need to test drive, but to me the 981 was more clinical (don't get me wrong, a wonderful car!) and the 987 more old school and dated in a lovely way.
Best
Sven
12-02-2014, 11:04 PM
#15
My C6 Z06 ran cup tires with upgraded shocks and brake pads. Z06 is faster, but simply ready to try something lighter, mid engine. My local tracks are VIR, Summit Point, Pocono, and NJ Motorsports Park. Outside VIR, tracks are pretty short where HP is not the ultimate factor.
Thanks again and look forward to learning on the forum. Maybe I can help others, too. Ha