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it's not crazy talk. in fact, I had this very conversation at lunch yesterday with my employees. In an attempt to gain acceptance among uber Cayman swap enthusiasts, I have come to the realization that I am dying to find a customer that would task us with shoving a 991 Turbo S motor in a 981. We are not pioneers for having shoved a 3.8L motor in a Cayman, as it has been done before many times. We did pioneer running it at Daytona in the 24 hour and maybe we are unique in that we do it to brand new cars for customers, but I can't help feeling like we would get a HUGE REACTION to a 981 with a 500hp / 500 lb/ft platform. Come on Tom, lets DO IT!
The single biggest problem is the intercooler location. If a customer wanted to go this route, I think I would want to do whatever possible to run the motor in stock OE configuration. Factory DME and revising the trunk area to accept a rear mounted intercooler setup. Getty Design in LA already has lightweight carbon fiber bodywork so we have a hatch and if we could go into the trunk and mount the intercoolers, in theory, it might work. Now that the 997.2 Turbo case motor went 9A1 and DFI, we have PDK and 981 6peed options for transmissions. Furthermore, the 987.2 / 981 6-speed transmissions are so robust and so reliable, I hear rumors of guys using them on larger powerplants. Either transmission is adequately robust enough to handle this.
P.S. You have to stick with 987.2 and 997.2 stuff OR use 991 and 981 stuff in conjunction with each other. As they warned you in Ghostbusters, "NEVER CROSS THE STREAMS!"
I think that I have managed to convince myself that this would be a nightmare project to undertake. This is why we like building naturally aspirated cars with applications that have already been tested!
2012 Cayman R with PDK, 3.8L X51, cockpit adjustable sway bars, full monoball suspension, 3-way adjustable shocks, Cargraphic, etc etc etc...estimated output 390ish rwhp.
Is it better to use a Cayman S or the R? It is cheaper to buy a 987.2 Cayman S with PDK. What is approximate build cost if I supply the car? Is there an a la carte menu of stuff you can choose depending on ones needs/budget?
I'm interested in the answer to the S versus R question. Additionally, would like to hear your thoughts regarding the 987.1 versus 987.2 if staying with a manual car. If I'm willing to do an engine rebuild and/or swap eventually on the 987.1 is there any benefit to the 987.2 other than a better engine to start with prior to an engine rebuild or swap?
I'm trying to figure out if I'm willing to do a build on my 2012 Cayman R or if I should just get an older Cayman S and then when the engine goes swap or rebuild for more power. Any help is greatly appreciated.
To answer the whole R vs. S question and if you want my advice on the DFI upgrade from EFI, it makes financial sense if you have lost the motor on your 987.1 to upgrade to DFI. They are no longer making the 987.1 long block; you have to re-use your existing cylinder heads. If you spin a main bearing, you can get a shortblock. So, if you have a blown up motor, for the additional cost of a 987.2 gearbox and about $2500 in parts and labor, you can be putting either a 987.2 motor or a 997.2 motor back in your EFI 987.1; the 3.8L and 3.4L from that 987.1 era cost the same so you would have the same dollars invested if you bought a used, junkyard EFI 3.8L engine. Again though, it makes a ton of economic sense if you lost your motor OR if you found a $20K donor 987.1 for us to do the conversion from 3.4L to 3.8L.
As for the whole 987.2 S vs. 987.2 R, it depends on the cost of the donor car. In a nutshell, the Cayman R ECU is making full throttle all the way to 7500 RPM whereas the S is not. So, if the variance in the cost of the donor cars is $10K, it may not make sense but if you're looking to spend a bunch of $ on a motor conversion AND bolt-on mods, you're going to get every ounce of HP/TQ we bolt to it using the Cayman R ECU. The same goes for the Cayman Black Edition. Right now, for building a track car that can be turned into a full-blown race car, you can't go wrong with any 987.2 but if you want to be the fastest of all 987.2s, you need the R or the Black.
John, I think I need to understand this further too. I currently have a base, 5 speed, 987.1. If I want to go to a 3.8, you think it makes more sense to jump to a DFI? I thought the new ECU and wiring harness made it pretty expensive. Does your cost figure apply to a race car only or also a street car? Would all the other systems work correctly on a street car?
It's not so much as what makes sense as it is what is available. I can't order a new complete, 997.1 3.8L engine to bolt up to your car. Therefore you need to either find a used 997.1 3.8L engine from a junkyard or someone OR, consider going to DFI. Your intuition is correct though in that it is more expensive to upgrade to the DFI management but it's more of something you have to look at longer term as far as reliability, etc. Outside of the cost of a gearbox, for roughly $2500 or so you can advance an entire generation. The most recent EFI-DFI convers we did was a race car not street car. In theory everything would work as they're all very similar but this is something that I would definitely have to do where we can't guarantee you won't get a check engine light. I know that's not the answer you wanted to hear and it probably wouldn't end up that way but it's my natural reaction to be honest and NOT over-promise and under-deliver.
For a track car or almost race car, I can say with 100% confidence, no issues, whatsoever that all systems will be fine for usage.
What about a 991 GT3 engine... and PDK-S mashed up with a 981 Cayman? I know it's probably an expensive pipe dream, and would likely be total excess, but I think I'd be OK with it and it would certainly out perform whatever the GT4 ends up being.
Let's do it! Question, has anyone checked part numbers to see which 991 GT3 PDK cross references with another PDK? None of us know what bolt pattern the bell housing would require but let's dig!
Still a little confused but here are the specifics questions:
My cousin has a base 2010 987.2 Cayman 2.9 6 speed that he had minor damage to the door area. He did need some bodywork and paint. No major damage. I can pickup the car for a reasonable price and make it a track car. The 2.9 is not DFI I believe. It also does not have the sport chrono package. Can I put in a 3.8L DFI motor from a 997.2? If so can I install the powerkit? Will the ecu let it rev to what it should in a 997.2 w/powerkit? If we can, I am ready to go.
10-03-2014, 10:45 AM
