Cayman S
. I almost did.
02-25-2005, 07:36 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
Okay, let me qualify what I said. If you want a very 911-ish car, but with better handling due to the mid-engine, get the Cayman.
This new car isn't really a Boxster Coupe, and it's not really a mid-engine Carrera, but it's somewhere in between there and really its own animal (even though it does share many components). If they make a stripped down version a la club sport, THAT will be a car to covet.
This new car isn't really a Boxster Coupe, and it's not really a mid-engine Carrera, but it's somewhere in between there and really its own animal (even though it does share many components). If they make a stripped down version a la club sport, THAT will be a car to covet.
02-25-2005, 07:59 PM
#33
Official Bay Area Patriot
Fuse 24 Assassin
Rennlist Member
Fuse 24 Assassin
Rennlist Member
Paul's right. This car would make a great club sport if Porsche ever released it as an option. I have no doubt this car will sell BIG 
02-25-2005, 10:17 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
the handling on this car should be fantastic, none of the rear engine drawbacks of the 911 and all of the engineering tweaks Porsche has developed over the decades to keep the 911 on the road. The chassis is designed for a car with no roof, adding that roof will only improve chassis dynamics. and hopefully this car will be available with the DSG right away.
02-26-2005, 12:19 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by nyca
hopefully this car will be available with the DSG right away.
Shifting duty will fall to one of two six-speed units, either a manual or automatic with a shift-it-yourself-via-paddles option.
02-26-2005, 12:50 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I truly hope that the Cayman will come with the performance enhancement benefits of making the Boxster into a coupe. If so, it will outperform the C2, and I will join the parade and order one. Unfortunately, that possibility will be falsely dampened by PAG. They've already declared that the Cayman will be between the Boxster S and the C2, and will make sure that it stays below the C2. That stinks.
But, that's Porsche. Brand new, even with all the performance enhancements from the factory, Porsche will make sure the Cayman will not outperform a C2 coupe. What I would pobably do is wait out the first few years, then buy a second hand Cayman and modify it to it's potential as a C2 beater. Heck, forget about beating the C2. It has the potential to be a GT3 beater.
But, that's Porsche. Brand new, even with all the performance enhancements from the factory, Porsche will make sure the Cayman will not outperform a C2 coupe. What I would pobably do is wait out the first few years, then buy a second hand Cayman and modify it to it's potential as a C2 beater. Heck, forget about beating the C2. It has the potential to be a GT3 beater.
02-26-2005, 01:34 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Palting
What I would pobably do is wait out the first few years, then buy a second hand Cayman and modify it to it's potential as a C2 beater.
02-28-2005, 12:19 AM
#39
Advanced
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squeezing into tight space between Boxster S and C2
I understand that Porsche does not want to be a mass marketer but... what the???
I just don't see the strategic point in undercutting the 911 C2 with the Cayman S. Doesn't this car end up being 300 pounds less, missing only 25 horsepower, and with mid engine balance?
I was expecting -hoping for, really - a non "S" Cayman with possibly a slightly uptuned version of the base Boxster engine at a sub Boxster price. The lower weight and additional rigidity of the coupe could give that Boxster S level performance.
But the assumption I have been given for the range in Canadian dollar terms:
The Boxster starts about $62K CDN
The Boxster S about $75K CDN
The C2 about $100K CDN
The Cayman S looks like it will be about $80K-$85K CDN. I just wonder how that does not eat into both Boxster S and 911 sales in a huge way.
I won't lie and say that I am ever eager to buy a car new, or that I love lining up for the first year of a new model, but a 260 or so horsepower Cayman at $55K CDN probably would have done the trick.
I mean if Porsche had made a coupe version of the Boxster from the get go I already would have bought one.
I just don't see the strategic point in undercutting the 911 C2 with the Cayman S. Doesn't this car end up being 300 pounds less, missing only 25 horsepower, and with mid engine balance?
I was expecting -hoping for, really - a non "S" Cayman with possibly a slightly uptuned version of the base Boxster engine at a sub Boxster price. The lower weight and additional rigidity of the coupe could give that Boxster S level performance.
But the assumption I have been given for the range in Canadian dollar terms:
The Boxster starts about $62K CDN
The Boxster S about $75K CDN
The C2 about $100K CDN
The Cayman S looks like it will be about $80K-$85K CDN. I just wonder how that does not eat into both Boxster S and 911 sales in a huge way.
I won't lie and say that I am ever eager to buy a car new, or that I love lining up for the first year of a new model, but a 260 or so horsepower Cayman at $55K CDN probably would have done the trick.
I mean if Porsche had made a coupe version of the Boxster from the get go I already would have bought one.
Originally Posted by Palting
I truly hope that the Cayman will come with the performance enhancement benefits of making the Boxster into a coupe. If so, it will outperform the C2, and I will join the parade and order one. Unfortunately, that possibility will be falsely dampened by PAG. They've already declared that the Cayman will be between the Boxster S and the C2, and will make sure that it stays below the C2. That stinks.
But, that's Porsche. Brand new, even with all the performance enhancements from the factory, Porsche will make sure the Cayman will not outperform a C2 coupe. What I would pobably do is wait out the first few years, then buy a second hand Cayman and modify it to it's potential as a C2 beater. Heck, forget about beating the C2. It has the potential to be a GT3 beater.
But, that's Porsche. Brand new, even with all the performance enhancements from the factory, Porsche will make sure the Cayman will not outperform a C2 coupe. What I would pobably do is wait out the first few years, then buy a second hand Cayman and modify it to it's potential as a C2 beater. Heck, forget about beating the C2. It has the potential to be a GT3 beater.
02-28-2005, 02:13 AM
#40
If porsche made a 260 horsepower car for 55k CAN many Porsche owners would be pissed because it would dilute the brand....we see enough soccer mom's driving BMW's and don't need the same happening with Porsche....No more 924 pricing please....What they should have done is priced this even with the boxster S as it has a slightly beefier engine....pricing it over the boxster S is a mistake IMHO as is calling it the Cayman aka Gayman....
02-28-2005, 10:45 AM
#41
Advanced
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't disagree that your thoughts would be representative of many Porschephiles. I just think that this market positioning neither serves Porsche's business interests nor those of the enthusiast community.
Well, this is kind of a reflection of my point. A Cayman at what.... maybe 2800 lbs?... with 295 hp and mid engine? Wouldn't 320HP, 3200 lb 911 c2 owners be either:
1. Pissed
or
2. Cayman buyers instead (at 20% less revenue for Porsche)
I started with the premise that Porsche is obviously concerned with the brand dilution effect. However they are diluting the 911 brand with is move. Besides the brand dilution is an overstated issue. Most of the new Porsche drivers I see are obvious business leasers. These are the folks who got the 3 year lease on the Boxster because it was cuter than the Jag. I would rather have the enthiusiast kids tuning a 924 in my community than the sales guy who just had a $700 a month car allowance to throw down on any old lease.
The limit on soccer moms invading our turf is how many soccer moms will start driving a 2 seater?The few who do will need a convertible for the cuteness factor...ergo Boxster.
Besides the brand dilution that we have to worry about most is the rep Porsche is gaining as a lifestyle choice car for 55 year old rich dentists. We could do a whole lot worse than attracting the Nissan 350z, Infiniti G35, Mazda RX8 crowd. I make a pretty good living and am well into Phase 2 of my mid life crisis, and it still scares me when I am the youngest guy at a PCA mtg.
I was hoping for the tradition of coupes being cheaper than convertibles all things being equal. At that point why not introduce a Cayman and a Cayman S, each priced roughly 10% less than the equivalent Boxster?
Really where this comes from my POV is I want a car that is about 2800 lbs, somewhere around 250 HP or better, two seater is fine but would prefer more cargo space than a 911, handling is paramount, mid engine fits that bill, a nd it has to be a hard top. I can't find anything that replaces my 944 S2, but would be prepared to buy it.
The Cayman looks very much like this car, and in all liklelihood I will buy a 2007 model around 2010. Positioning this car between the Boxster S and the 911 pricewise means that Porsche will lose me as a buyerof a new car in 2006/2007.
Originally Posted by destaccado
If porsche made a 260 horsepower car for 55k CAN many Porsche owners would be pissed because it would dilute the brand....
1. Pissed
or
2. Cayman buyers instead (at 20% less revenue for Porsche)
Originally Posted by destaccado
we see enough soccer mom's driving BMW's and don't need the same happening with Porsche....No more 924 pricing please....
The limit on soccer moms invading our turf is how many soccer moms will start driving a 2 seater?The few who do will need a convertible for the cuteness factor...ergo Boxster.
Besides the brand dilution that we have to worry about most is the rep Porsche is gaining as a lifestyle choice car for 55 year old rich dentists. We could do a whole lot worse than attracting the Nissan 350z, Infiniti G35, Mazda RX8 crowd. I make a pretty good living and am well into Phase 2 of my mid life crisis, and it still scares me when I am the youngest guy at a PCA mtg.
Originally Posted by destaccado
What they should have done is priced this even with the boxster S as it has a slightly beefier engine....pricing it over the boxster S is a mistake IMHO as is calling it the Cayman aka Gayman....
Really where this comes from my POV is I want a car that is about 2800 lbs, somewhere around 250 HP or better, two seater is fine but would prefer more cargo space than a 911, handling is paramount, mid engine fits that bill, a nd it has to be a hard top. I can't find anything that replaces my 944 S2, but would be prepared to buy it.
The Cayman looks very much like this car, and in all liklelihood I will buy a 2007 model around 2010. Positioning this car between the Boxster S and the 911 pricewise means that Porsche will lose me as a buyerof a new car in 2006/2007.
02-28-2005, 10:55 AM
#42
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by destaccado
If porsche made a 260 horsepower car for 55k CAN many Porsche owners would be pissed because it would dilute the brand....we see enough soccer mom's driving BMW's and don't need the same happening with Porsche....No more 924 pricing please....What they should have done is priced this even with the boxster S as it has a slightly beefier engine....pricing it over the boxster S is a mistake IMHO as is calling it the Cayman aka Gayman....
Save the 3.4L 295 horse engine for a Club Sport version.........that way I think you will satisfy the most amount of people.
02-28-2005, 02:16 PM
#43
Track Day
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Soccer moms don't buy 2-seater hard-tops.
Ever.
What' wrong with making something that middle-class people under 50 years old can afford with reasonable sacrifices? Dilute the brand? Selling a car that depreciates like this one will is going to dilute the brand a great deal. Just because Porsche wants people to pay $65K for a cheaper-to-produce coupe version of their $55K convertible doesn't mean that the used market is going to agree with them. If that's where the pricing really lands, then we will be seeing massive depreciation after the initial rush.
Diluting the brand? Try factory incentives and money back, then a face-losing price DROP next year with a 30hp power reduction non-S version, followed by the "revised" Cayman S with 300 HP and bigger rims and a $2-7K price cut from the "original."
It's a mistake.
Consider this one potential buyer who will be waiting for a well-maintained used specimen.
Ever.
What' wrong with making something that middle-class people under 50 years old can afford with reasonable sacrifices? Dilute the brand? Selling a car that depreciates like this one will is going to dilute the brand a great deal. Just because Porsche wants people to pay $65K for a cheaper-to-produce coupe version of their $55K convertible doesn't mean that the used market is going to agree with them. If that's where the pricing really lands, then we will be seeing massive depreciation after the initial rush.
Diluting the brand? Try factory incentives and money back, then a face-losing price DROP next year with a 30hp power reduction non-S version, followed by the "revised" Cayman S with 300 HP and bigger rims and a $2-7K price cut from the "original."
It's a mistake.
Consider this one potential buyer who will be waiting for a well-maintained used specimen.
02-28-2005, 02:30 PM
#44
Advanced
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly
Exactly.
I would have been a potential new buyer for 2007 model if they did the right thing.
I would have been a potential new buyer for 2007 model if they did the right thing.
Originally Posted by BenPatient
Soccer moms don't buy 2-seater hard-tops.
Ever.
What' wrong with making something that middle-class people under 50 years old can afford with reasonable sacrifices? Dilute the brand? Selling a car that depreciates like this one will is going to dilute the brand a great deal. Just because Porsche wants people to pay $65K for a cheaper-to-produce coupe version of their $55K convertible doesn't mean that the used market is going to agree with them. If that's where the pricing really lands, then we will be seeing massive depreciation after the initial rush.
Diluting the brand? Try factory incentives and money back, then a face-losing price DROP next year with a 30hp power reduction non-S version, followed by the "revised" Cayman S with 300 HP and bigger rims and a $2-7K price cut from the "original."
It's a mistake.
Consider this one potential buyer who will be waiting for a well-maintained used specimen.
Ever.
What' wrong with making something that middle-class people under 50 years old can afford with reasonable sacrifices? Dilute the brand? Selling a car that depreciates like this one will is going to dilute the brand a great deal. Just because Porsche wants people to pay $65K for a cheaper-to-produce coupe version of their $55K convertible doesn't mean that the used market is going to agree with them. If that's where the pricing really lands, then we will be seeing massive depreciation after the initial rush.
Diluting the brand? Try factory incentives and money back, then a face-losing price DROP next year with a 30hp power reduction non-S version, followed by the "revised" Cayman S with 300 HP and bigger rims and a $2-7K price cut from the "original."
It's a mistake.
Consider this one potential buyer who will be waiting for a well-maintained used specimen.
02-28-2005, 06:56 PM
#45
I have to say this is the first time I've heard people demanding LESS power from a Porsche!
If you want a base Cayman, just be patient. Odds are they'll roll out a base model after launching with the S (same strategy they used with the Cayenne).
The fact the Cayman threatens the base 997C2 means Porsche will likely bump up the 911 performance next year. The base 997 could get the 3.8L S motor. Again, this is what Porsche did with the 911 after unveiling the 3.2L Boxster S in 2000. The 996 got 3.6L, thereby "protecting" PAG's sacred cash cow.
As for the Cayman, this has tremendous potential. I just hope Porsche fully exploits the platform. A dry sump-equipped "Cayman GT" would be an amazing driver's car. Imagine 3.8L in a lightweight mid-engined coupe!
If you want a base Cayman, just be patient. Odds are they'll roll out a base model after launching with the S (same strategy they used with the Cayenne).
The fact the Cayman threatens the base 997C2 means Porsche will likely bump up the 911 performance next year. The base 997 could get the 3.8L S motor. Again, this is what Porsche did with the 911 after unveiling the 3.2L Boxster S in 2000. The 996 got 3.6L, thereby "protecting" PAG's sacred cash cow.
As for the Cayman, this has tremendous potential. I just hope Porsche fully exploits the platform. A dry sump-equipped "Cayman GT" would be an amazing driver's car. Imagine 3.8L in a lightweight mid-engined coupe!