What MY did Porsche put the Updated Ign Coils On?
07-06-2015, 10:35 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Perhaps - but IIRC the latest update for the 8 coils for the 955 were priced from the dealers at more than $300. IIRC the parts alone were in the $800-1000 range, but not sure which of the parts nos. noted at post #5 by "Taureg" above that was. Maybe it was for the -20 that John Welch said above were more than the -09 he used, & that you're noting?
But the prices I'm hearing for the parts + P-dealer to install was in that $2-4k range, so the negotiating point I'm referring to here is: install them yourself at your cost, or discount it for my local dealer's quote to do them.
And if that Porsche dealer is already asking $3-4k over current NADA/KBB values, then they may knock more than that $2k +/- off to sell the CS before it depreciates further.
Just as with the coolant pipes update on 955's - the coils are a key issue in my 955 CS search.
Thanx,
Tom
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But the prices I'm hearing for the parts + P-dealer to install was in that $2-4k range, so the negotiating point I'm referring to here is: install them yourself at your cost, or discount it for my local dealer's quote to do them.
And if that Porsche dealer is already asking $3-4k over current NADA/KBB values, then they may knock more than that $2k +/- off to sell the CS before it depreciates further.
Just as with the coolant pipes update on 955's - the coils are a key issue in my 955 CS search.
Thanx,
Tom
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My 40K service included an oil change, front pads and sensors, air filters, cabin filter, spark plugs, front wipers, rear wiper, and coil recall. Total price with labor was 1500 bucks. It takes an extra minute to install a coil. Local dealer quoted something around $500 for 8 new coils with tax when I checked a few months ago.
07-07-2015, 12:27 AM
#17
Advanced
Thread Starter
Well - with all those <$500 parts prices in you guys' 3 posts above, it's well worth my rechecking with the local P-dealer service dept. for their pricing. Maybe the guy was quoting it with other service items due at the same service interval/miles.
What are you guys finding with the service life of these individual coils in miles?
What is the factory recco'd interval to change them out? ... if different.
The old single coil lasted essentially forever?
Thanx for the parts info & links!
I knew about Sunset before, for a far better price on the factory tow hitch, than our local SoCal dealers like to quote for the part alone. So their better pricing on coils doesn't surprise me.
It would seem that the coils thing is far less of an issue, than I'd thought.
Cheers!
Tom
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What are you guys finding with the service life of these individual coils in miles?
What is the factory recco'd interval to change them out? ... if different.
The old single coil lasted essentially forever?
Thanx for the parts info & links!
I knew about Sunset before, for a far better price on the factory tow hitch, than our local SoCal dealers like to quote for the part alone. So their better pricing on coils doesn't surprise me.
It would seem that the coils thing is far less of an issue, than I'd thought.
Cheers!
Tom
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07-07-2015, 12:06 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
If they're like most of the other coils you find in the VAG/PAG world, they'll last anywhere from 100-150K. Whatever version Porsche installed on my 04 CTT back in 07 after the recall was performed, those are still in there now at 123K. I'll replace them when I do the plugs as preventative maintenance. They're pretty cheap, all things considered.
07-07-2015, 12:25 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Regardless of what the cost is, $500 or $2000, you are reaching for the stars if you think this will be negotiating power with a dealer. They will claim the coils in the vehicle are fine (which they likely are) and will not discount based on your thinking that they should be upgraded.
07-07-2015, 03:40 PM
#20
Advanced
Thread Starter
If they're like most of the other coils you find in the VAG/PAG world, they'll last anywhere from 100-150K. Whatever version Porsche installed on my 04 CTT back in 07 after the recall was performed, those are still in there now at 123K. I'll replace them when I do the plugs as preventative maintenance. They're pretty cheap, all things considered.
Agree, not a huge expense as preventative maint. either.
You mentioned a "recall" back in 07-ish - so was this an official Porsche Recall at their cost to replace?
.... or just a TSB where they're advising owners to change them at our cost?
The difference being, the official recall should show up more readily on an obie-one-canobie scan of any CS I'd look at.
.... with should tending to could & not necessarily so .... as I know.
Thanx - this is really helpful info you guys are giving in here.
Tom
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07-07-2015, 04:04 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Honestly, these cars are old enough that all recalls should be done. Whether or not the coils were done on my car wasn't even a concern when I bought it. It's a dirty simple DIY and is really the least of my concerns when I was shopping.
Coils are only a problem when they become a problem. They either work, or your car is misfiring like crazy. There isn't much of a gray area there.
What the collective is trying to tell you is they don't matter. If the car runs great, the coils are good. If the car isn't running great, spend the 350 bucks and replace the coils. A leaky input shaft seal on the tranny is over 2K. Control arms are 800 if you do them yourself and pay for the alignment. Tires are a G. Brakes are just as much. Way too many other expensive items that are an actual concern compared to coils.
You seem like you're trying to find a good bargain, but the reality is that if you're going to shop for a car, and expect the car to have utterly zero issues with all the current parts, you're going to pay for it in the purchase price. If you buy a car at NADA or KBB value, you should be ready to drop 1-3K to get the car sorted out. When I look at my receipts dating back to new, there isn't much on there that is under a grand. So, what's 350 bucks in the grand scheme of things? Especially if you're going to own the car for 20 years like you claim.
The best you can hope for is that the PPI checks out, the car has had all the schedule maintenance done according to the Porsche spec sheet, and it the outstanding issues are represented in the purchase price. If you want a good example, expect to pay 20-30% over book value - one way or another. You either pay in the purchase price, or pay after when you're sorting it out.
You're talking about buying a Cayenne S. Your biggest concern should be whether the cylinders are going to hold up.
Coils are only a problem when they become a problem. They either work, or your car is misfiring like crazy. There isn't much of a gray area there.
What the collective is trying to tell you is they don't matter. If the car runs great, the coils are good. If the car isn't running great, spend the 350 bucks and replace the coils. A leaky input shaft seal on the tranny is over 2K. Control arms are 800 if you do them yourself and pay for the alignment. Tires are a G. Brakes are just as much. Way too many other expensive items that are an actual concern compared to coils.
You seem like you're trying to find a good bargain, but the reality is that if you're going to shop for a car, and expect the car to have utterly zero issues with all the current parts, you're going to pay for it in the purchase price. If you buy a car at NADA or KBB value, you should be ready to drop 1-3K to get the car sorted out. When I look at my receipts dating back to new, there isn't much on there that is under a grand. So, what's 350 bucks in the grand scheme of things? Especially if you're going to own the car for 20 years like you claim.
The best you can hope for is that the PPI checks out, the car has had all the schedule maintenance done according to the Porsche spec sheet, and it the outstanding issues are represented in the purchase price. If you want a good example, expect to pay 20-30% over book value - one way or another. You either pay in the purchase price, or pay after when you're sorting it out.
You're talking about buying a Cayenne S. Your biggest concern should be whether the cylinders are going to hold up.
07-07-2015, 04:13 PM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Regardless of what the cost is, $500 or $2000, you are reaching for the stars if you think this will be negotiating power with a dealer. They will claim the coils in the vehicle are fine (which they likely are) and will not discount based on your thinking that they should be upgraded.
They too are in the business of selling cars at a profit, the longer they sit overpriced - the more value/true sales price is lost over time, & the less profit margin also due to to holding inventory with interest charges & lost use of capital.
Will they be stupid & not correcting their prices - quite possibly! So if they are over-valuing a car & refuse to price it right - you walk!
Why do I say "correcting their pricing"?
As I said above, coils are only one of several items coming into play in any sales negotiations, including the coolant pipes & other maintenance issues - influencing where they're placing the value for the car.
Most owners & dealers always list their cars at top condition "Excellent" - whether it is or not, & on KBB for example, they say that means NO-Zero service items needed to be top/Excellent, & so forth down the line. This is aside from the actual cosmetic condition of the paint, interior, etc., which also factor into the rating.
So if a seller - any seller - has a CS rated & priced at KBB's Excellent - but the 40k service, coolant pipes, other TSB items, etc. are due within "a-couple-of-a-few" 1000 miles - then it is in fact not Excl. & you drop to the true applicable price level to start off your price negotiations.
And you reference the NADA pricing guide too, as well as current comparable sales in their area - since both KBB & NADA prices are already based on 4-6 month old sales - not necessarily the most current sales.
NADA just leaves that off & gives one retail & avg/mid/high trade-in values, & leaves the condition bickering to the parties. They are the dealers' association, so their process is designed for the dealers benefit, while KBB also serves the lenders, so have more variables.
Another thing to check with the KBB valuation system, is whether the seller is "double counting" options to puff the value up - intentionally &/or not knowingly. NADA's system automatically factors in included options on certain models in a line-up - say Cay to CS to CT to CTS etc. But KBB keeps all the selections on the table for the online user to select - even if they are items included in the base price.
So for example, what I find is that with the CS Titanium which included the 19" wheels, Nav, Bi-Xenon/Dynamic-cornering headlights & some other options in it's base price - the sellers are then adding those options again & artificially inflating the "current market value" by double counting options which are present on all examples of a certain model/trim level CS-TI (& it's the same with any other make/model/trim).
So once you pull out all of the "fluff" of over rating & double counting options etc., then the true KBB value ends up coming pretty close to the NADA high-trade-in to retail value - & you start negotiating from there. You also can be assured that the dealer played this same "game" on the trade-in end, by beating down the "seller/trade-in" buyer on what they actually paid for the car!
Maybe "dealer X" or "PP seller Y" does not drop, but then you usually see that the car either sold for less than original asking price, or is sitting for sale for a very long time, &/or gets moved to another dealership or wholesaler!
It also works in negotiating for new cars, if you do your research to know the actual dealer cost (invoice) price, their built in profit(s) within that invoice cost ("Hold back" for most domestic brands & some imports), & bargain hard at the right time of the MY & each month for the sale!
I've always done so, & have been successful on every car I've bought, & some that I didn't.
It can be done - & no it won't work every time - & that's my overview of how to do so, if you are looking in the future.
PS - It's not just me, but I have a few other SoCal PCA member buddies who have purchased pre-owned Cayennes (`11 V6, `08 CS, `13 CD, etc.) where they did get the respective Porsche dealerships selling the cars to drop the asking prices by several $1000s within the past 6-12 months, since we're all talking Cayennes at our various events.
My point is that they will dicker with you, & you can do better than just walking in waving the white flag & writing a check for the asking price, so don't be afraid to try negotiating, but be prepared to walk out & move on to another if they don't give you what you feel is a fair price - given the PPI, condition, etc. So I offered a process above for those who may not know it, & not to lecture to those who already know how.
Hope you & others find that helpful.
Tom
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Last edited by Tom_T; 07-07-2015 at 04:32 PM.
07-07-2015, 04:20 PM
#23
Advanced
Thread Starter
Honestly, these cars are old enough that all recalls should be done. Whether or not the coils were done on my car wasn't even a concern when I bought it. It's a dirty simple DIY and is really the least of my concerns when I was shopping.
Coils are only a problem when they become a problem. They either work, or your car is misfiring like crazy. There isn't much of a gray area there.
What the collective is trying to tell you is they don't matter. If the car runs great, the coils are good. If the car isn't running great, spend the 350 bucks and replace the coils. A leaky input shaft seal on the tranny is over 2K. Control arms are 800 if you do them yourself and pay for the alignment. Tires are a G. Brakes are just as much. Way too many other expensive items that are an actual concern compared to coils.
You seem like you're trying to find a good bargain, but the reality is that if you're going to shop for a car, and expect the car to have utterly zero issues with all the current parts, you're going to pay for it in the purchase price. If you buy a car at NADA or KBB value, you should be ready to drop 1-3K to get the car sorted out. When I look at my receipts dating back to new, there isn't much on there that is under a grand. So, what's 350 bucks in the grand scheme of things? Especially if you're going to own the car for 20 years like you claim.
The best you can hope for is that the PPI checks out, the car has had all the schedule maintenance done according to the Porsche spec sheet, and it the outstanding issues are represented in the purchase price. If you want a good example, expect to pay 20-30% over book value - one way or another. You either pay in the purchase price, or pay after when you're sorting it out.
You're talking about buying a Cayenne S. Your biggest concern should be whether the cylinders are going to hold up.
Coils are only a problem when they become a problem. They either work, or your car is misfiring like crazy. There isn't much of a gray area there.
What the collective is trying to tell you is they don't matter. If the car runs great, the coils are good. If the car isn't running great, spend the 350 bucks and replace the coils. A leaky input shaft seal on the tranny is over 2K. Control arms are 800 if you do them yourself and pay for the alignment. Tires are a G. Brakes are just as much. Way too many other expensive items that are an actual concern compared to coils.
You seem like you're trying to find a good bargain, but the reality is that if you're going to shop for a car, and expect the car to have utterly zero issues with all the current parts, you're going to pay for it in the purchase price. If you buy a car at NADA or KBB value, you should be ready to drop 1-3K to get the car sorted out. When I look at my receipts dating back to new, there isn't much on there that is under a grand. So, what's 350 bucks in the grand scheme of things? Especially if you're going to own the car for 20 years like you claim.
The best you can hope for is that the PPI checks out, the car has had all the schedule maintenance done according to the Porsche spec sheet, and it the outstanding issues are represented in the purchase price. If you want a good example, expect to pay 20-30% over book value - one way or another. You either pay in the purchase price, or pay after when you're sorting it out.
You're talking about buying a Cayenne S. Your biggest concern should be whether the cylinders are going to hold up.
I've got what I need on coils at this point. I just asked you if it was an actual "Recall" or a "TSB" item (if you know).
I don't agree that you necessarily have to pay more than the true NADA/KBB value in order to get a good example, but maybe - cuz that's how they get averages in their models - the old bell curve. But sometimes it's unaware buyers paying more than they should on the high end of that curve.
PS - I'm looking at a <30k one owner `06 CS-TI with the original coils still in it per the dealer, so if there was a recall in `07 per your comment a couple of posts above - then, no they have not necessarily had all recalls done by now. There are tons of used cars out there without recalls done - even some of the big deal NHTSA safety recalls.
Cheers!
Tom
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07-07-2015, 06:17 PM
#25
Advanced
Thread Starter
I read all of those stickies last year when I first started looking into a CS, but IIRC it didn't say there either.
BTW - In answer to your questioning if I'd own the CS for 20 years in a prior post - if my car ownership history is any indication, I will be keeping the CS. I started driving in `67 & bought my 1st car in Fall `69, & have only owned 5 cars total since then (not counting the parents' cars I learned on & drove at first).
Of those 5, I still own & mostly still drive the latter 3:
#3 - `73 914-2.0 - 2nd owner since 12/75 (DD 12/75-5/85 from 45k to 173K mi, wrecked 5/85 & stored, under resto)
#4 - `85 BMW 325e - OO 5/85 & DD (194k mi)
#5 - `88 VW Westfalia - OO 4/88 & DD (218k mi)
I'd only sold the prior 2:
#1 - `68 Opel Kadett 1.1L 2dr Notchback - DD (9/69 - 8/71 - blown engine)
#2 - `69 Pontiac Ventura 400ci/2bbl/AT 4dr Hardtop - DD (was Dad's car 70-71, then mine 8/71 - 2/76 sold for 914, too much of a gas hog in the oil crisis)
Oddly enough, the Westy is currently the most valuable, at $50-70k pending an appraisal for current post-resto/refurb. value - even considering the future if/when post-resto values of the 914 & E30!
So it's pretty likely that I keep the 06 CS-TI or 08-10 CS that we get until I die, or my wife & I die, or pass it along to one of our kids - barring some health or financial crisis before then. We'd probably only put 3-5k per year on it mostly towing, since we now only do 5-6k per year on the 325e & Westy combined as of now. The benefits of home office for me, 2 miles to wife's work, everything pretty close by, 2 kids grown & gone, etc. to keep ongoing mileage down!
Cheers!
Tom
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