m5james

Hey there everyone, I'm James. Recently started looking at another vehicle to keep everyone in the family driving, I've never owned or (until this weekend) driven a P vehicle.

So, a little about me:
Prior military working on F14's and F18's, came to Boeing in '98 on the F22, did construction/real estate for a while, currently working at Boeing on the 787. Been a car guy since I got my first bite from the speed bug back in 1997 in the form of a 91 MR2 Turbo and it's been downhill since then.

Currently in our stable:
1991 BMW M5 - D'Sylva chip, stereo, full repaint
1998 BMW 740iL - fully rebuilt engine, ported and polished, cams, sleeved block for future TT setup, 6speed swap, lower on Bilstein shocks and H&R Stage II springs.
2001 BMW X5 4.4 - software tune, lowered on BC Racing coilovers, iForged staggered 20's (275F/315R), Eaton M112 supercharger setup pushing 6-8psi in the works.
2001 Suzuki TL1000R - changed the teeth gearing to -1 in the front and +2 in the rear, upgraded chain, custom painted fairings, custom projector headlight, undertail, 40 shot of NOS (have yet to install it)
2002 Ford F150 Harley Davidson - fully rebuilt engine, ported and polished, cams, upgraded from the stock Eaton 1.6l M112 to a larger Kenne Bell 2.3lowzilla, all supporting fuel mods, frame stiffening system, Dynamat throughout (had to do headers once I passed the 500HP mark, but I still want to be able to DD the truck), lowered w/ shackles in the rear.
2008 Scion tC (GF's car that would be turned into the kids car, then she'll drive the X5) - aftermarket wheels, CAI

Now, as for the Cayenne's I'm looking at. I'm still on the fence, each has it's pros and cons, and I'm still researching (just read a thread where I should be getting these both for a few thousand less) but I figured I'd get the intro outta the way and do my own thread searching before I go asking questions that have already been asked.

2005 w/ 106k - https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4592428205.html
Pros:
- Aftermarket intake (have yet to determine the brand, I just saw red silicone hosing under the engine dressing)
- Aftermarket exhaust (looks similar to the Cargraphic system after watching some of Fabspeeds comparison videos, but the dressing shield between the mufflers looks different) I've yet to see if it has the 2nd cats deleted or the rest of the exhaust system
- I'm going to call software companies to see if they can tell me if it has their software based on the VIN. It does great at holding gears during deceleration, so that's what's making me wonder if this is normal or something that happens after getting tuned. It admittedly feels slightly laggy (I'm spoiled by the INSTANT torque of my SC'd truck), but once it comes on, it's hard not to let off the throttle
- 106k miles
- Parking sensors
- 20" wheels
- Aftermarket LED taillights
- Aux headphone jack and iPod connections in the glovebox

From how it feels compared to my X5, plenty of power. I wish the turbo's and BOV we're more audible, but that's something I look into later if I get it.

Cons:
- Salvage title from a rear end hit. I don't mind the salvage so long as it was repaired and still functions structurally in the case of a rear impact while I'm owning it. The owner showed me pics of when he bought it at the auctions, and it didn't seem that bad. Bumper was knocked off, the mufflers were broken where they're welded together (he redid the welds, it doesn't leak). There is still a bend in the plastic bumper on the RH side by the tailgate, then there is a crease on the RH bottom corner of the tailgate itself.
- Tailgate won't open via the button, it has to be done w/ the key
- No sunroof
- He claims that only recently it gave him the amplifier failed warning so I couldn't listen to the stereo
- No service records since it's an auction car. He's done an oil change and changed the drivers side front 02 to get rid of a CEL
- Slight vibration at highway + speeds
- Decent clunk when I put it into reverse on his sloped driveway with the nose pointing upwards
- Drivers side red button for the belt buckle release is broken. It still functions, but the plastic portion is cracked

2004 w/ 120k - http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4632721127.html
Pros:
- 22" wheels
- Front brakes redone recently, I'm not sure about the rear
- Body is clean minus a small dimple on the hood and a couple marks on the bumper around the hitch
- Sunroof
- History for the past 2 or so years from them owning it and servicing it at either a Porsche indy or a friend who worked at a local shop.
- I doubt I'd use them, but has the roof rack crossbars
- Bose system (not sure if that's standard and I didn't pay attention to it on the previous listing since the stereo wouldn't turn on)

Cons:
- Hood shock needs replacement
- Needs valve cover gaskets (started smoking from the drivers side after a short 5-10 min around the neighborhood he lives in. I was never able to get over 30MPH (I was coming back from a vacation when I happen to be in the area and looked at it, kids in the car) so I don't know how the wheels/suspension will do on the highway
- Door speakers rattle (might need to be retightened throughout)
- No parking sensors (EDIT - apparently it does, they've been disconnected by the previous owner)
- At slow speeds of around 5MPH, I could let on and off the gas slightly and hear a clunking sound. I'm wondering if this is a driveline support bearing/guibo donut issue

That's all I've got off the top of my head. I'd like some opinions if you've got them, links of threads if something sounds immediately familiar, otherwise I'll continue reading up like I have been the past few weeks. Yesterday is the first time I've driven one of these, so the only issues I knew of really was coolant pipes and transmission valve bodies, so now I've got some new things to look into before I decide.

loxxrider

Welcome, and great list of cars! I think the 7 is especially interesting. I love when people make them into something so extremely polar opposite of what they were made to be. Another example is the S62 swapped Fluid Motor Union car. It seems we have some pretty similar interests in terms of cars, as I've got several modified BMWs as well. I also know a thing or two about the aerospace industry as I worked on designing parts for the F35 engine in the past. You must have a big family if you need another car

My opinion on the two cars you mentioned... I'd skip on the first one for sure. It just sounds like it'd take too much to get right, with the potential for not ever being quite right. Then again, the vibration could just be a bent wheel or something.

The second one seems like it has minor problems, but definitely do not buy before driving at high speeds. You're a mechanic of sorts right? So things like valve cover gaskets shouldn't be a problem for you. The only thing I'd be concerned with is the low speed clunk. I definitely agree that could be the center support bearing. Maybe you can get under there and take a look? Coolant pipes and cardan shaft (center support bearing issue) should be negotiating points for you.

Have you looked outside your immediate area?

BamaScoot

I wouldn't buy either of those. Check your email, sent you my mom's which is for sale. Also posted below. One owner, service records from Porsche on day 1, all typical issues resolved, etc. http://bham.craigslist.org/cto/4607449875.html

^This is the type of car you need to find whether you restrict your search locally or expand it nationwide. You'll get frustrated with any "new" used car you buy if it comes with headaches.

Dennis C

I think I would skip both of those too. The wreck on the first one could be problematic. The second one has a few concerning issues too. The clunk on downshifting could be the valve body in the transmission, which isn't a cheap repair. Personally, I would list the 22" wheels in the "cons" section as opposed to the "pros" section. If you want a good combination of aesthetics and ride quality, then I believe that 20" wheels are perfect.

There are lots of Cayennes out there. You'll find a good one.

mtnrat

Those two look they have bee rode hard and put away wet. There are much better ones out there.

m5james

Thank you. The 7 started out w/ a simple suspension swap, then a friend had a car come through his shop w/ a blown transmission, customer refused to pay so he agreed to keep the car in exchange. I sold him my old trans for the same price as the 6spd swap, so it was really just good timing. I've seen a couple S62 swapped cars, but for all that trouble, I lean heavily towards an LSx swap instead. I'm going to install this SC kit onto the X5, but sooner or later the engine or trans is going to pop due to the increased power. I was going to do an LSx swap in the X5 when it did pop, but I found out keeping it AWD would be a huge feet, so instead I've decided I'll eventually swap the engine from the 7 into the X, convert the X to a 6spd and still be able to keep it AWD, then convert the 7 into an LSx beast. The F35 is pretty badass, but I've still got a special place held everytime I see an F22 in movies Yeah, I've personally got 2 children (17 and 13) and the GF has 3 children (16, 14 and 11). I've considered letting them drive one of my cars, but I've had them all for quite a while, sunk a fair amount into each, so I'd hate to see them get wrecked before I got to fully enjoy them...plus I like having a vehicle for every season and/or situation.

I like the gray mostly for visual reasons...I like the gray vs black (Seattle weather) and the 22's (even though I've read that 22's aren't the best on these vehicles), because the fill the wheel wells nicely enough that I don't feel I'd need to look into further lowering options. Everything that is sightly wrong w/ it is easily within my mechanical abilities (I did work on BMW's on the side out of my garage for about 6yrs during downtimes in real estate/construction and it kept me more than busy) and I can do. I had raised the vehicle all the way up and took a peak underneath, but it was very short and I didn't see anything obvious. I asked his wife about the coolant pipes (deer in headlights) and the cardan shaft is a term I haven't heard before, which sounds like it might be something on either vehicle since both have a clunk, just in different forms. I mentioned the items I saw and compared his to the other, so he's agreed to drop $1k in price, but I've read a couple threads where even these two are upwards or $3k-$4k too much based on some past sales.

I like the black one for the fact it's newer and got lower mileage, has mods that'll cost me upwards of $3500 if I buy them myself (which I'd end up doing because clearly I can't leave anything stock) and I can honestly overlook the minor tailgate damage. I drove it HARD and it felt great. Turbo lag is pretty obvious, but once it's going, I felt sometimes I needed to back off the throttle before it got away from me. Visually I like the 22's better, both for their size and ability to fill the wheel wells, but it seems the consensus is to stay away from them. This vehicle is a weekend toy for him as his DD is an 06 M5, so I don't think he's in a rush, but at the same time I think I can negotiate him down more if I find more onesy twosy items that I can blow out of proportion to justify him dropping the price.

I have not looked outside of my immediate area simply because I wanna be able to drive it before making a decision based on someones biased opinion of theirs being the best of the best, flying out somewhere and having it be no better or worse than anything I've seen locally. Clearly I don't need another vehicle anytime soon, so this is more of an adventure into getting in my first P car, meeting a new group of people (the Leavenworth and Bimmerfest crews are becoming very familiar...shh, don't say anything) and I'm getting bored with that I've got. It's either buy the CTT or just put more into the other toys...which'll most likely still happen regardless

m5james

I saw the listing when I used Search Tempest to find other CTT's within a few states of me and yet somehow your eBay listing came up. The white is appealing to me (my first X5 was white, my current one is dark blue), and while I know you've done a good amount of maintenance, you're $2k higher and roughly the same mileage as the gray one I'd looked at. I know 21's are harder to get tires for, so there's going to be a tradeoff, not to mention having to take your word on this excellent condition CTT when opinions of excellent are relative. I had a BMW forums guy come over one time w/ his BMW 740iL Individual, supercharged "show car", bragging heavily of being in a few magazines, etc etc just to see things with the naked eye that I couldn't believe how terrible they were. I mean no offense, but coming all the way to Alabama to look at a vehicle just isn't in the cards, and not for $20k and 15k more miles than one who's 25 min from me.

m5james

That's the thing, I'm not seeing lots of them. I've found a couple other ones in my area, but they're usually bone stock (which means I'm going to be buying a $3k wheel and tire package and $5000 in mods myself) or $3-$4K more at a dealership vs private party that already has mods being sold at a discount because most people won't ever get their return back on aftermarket parts.

Sniffer

Looking at both of this cars I would have said they were decent bets - ok the mileage is a little higher on both than I would ideally like but at first glance they appear good - how can you tell that they're to be avoided (I`m genuinely interested as I don't want another POS like I got last time round)

I know one has had a bump but it appears good apart from that blemish

Enlighten me!

Dennis C

First generation Cayennes are very reliable IF the original owner kept up with the scheduled maintenance and replaced the known problem items like the cardan shaft and plastic coolant pipes. I believe that the Porsche recommended oil change intervals are too long at 15K miles between changes, so I would look for cars that had the oil changed more frequently.

The only way you will really know what you've got is to find a car with full records of all the maintenance as well as a good PPI from a qualified Porsche mechanic. This is harder with Cayennes than some other Porsches because Cayennes were often purchased new by people who wanted the brand name and weren't necessarily Porsche enthusiasts.

The 22" wheel decision really comes down to personal preference. I understand why people like them. That being said, I think they look too big on the Cayenne. You do sacrifice ride quality too, although the air suspension with PASM (standard on the turbo, optional on the S) does help to manage that issue. I am very happy with the 20" Sport Techno wheels on my Cayenne.

I know they seem to be hard to find, but they are out there. I would keep looking, especially on forums and websites frequented by Porsche enthusiasts. You might consider looking on the PCA website in "The Mart".

BamaScoot

The difference being it's a one-owner car with all service records and no accident history. That's worth quite a bit to some folks. I wish you luck in your search.

ArneeA

I will probably be selling my wife's 05 CTT soon. 125k mi, all repairs and maintenance up to date. I just put new front lower control arms from a Turbo S two weeks ago. New cardan shaft, alum coolant pipes, rear hatch shocks, all taken care of.

Ti Silver on Black. Tow hitch, tint. No drama, just a clean SUV. I don't know what I'll price it at yet nor do I have pictures yet. Just an FYI.

m5james

I agree on the mileage, but I've got no desire to break the $20k barrier either as this'll be just another toy in my collection. It seems there were no major changes in these until 2011 (4.8l, magnesium and aluminum, etc) but the prices jump drastically after '11, but the 06' onwards are still holding their values. The common sense side of the says to just use the cash to finish the LONG list of modifications to what I already own then just buy the kid a little 3 series BMW or something, but I'm suprisingly bored w/ what I've got (I'm sure the X5 will revive it once I install the SC kit), so this is why I'm looking.

The 04 has more records, which is fine...but the way I see the 05 is that someone wouldn't have spent that kind of money on their vehicle if it was on the last leg, being in the wreck just means he got paid and moved onto something else. I bought my X5, gave it a thorough inspection, then proceeded to spend $3k on a complete suspension replacement, coilovers, replaced a few worn sensors, converted to Evans coolant and then spent two weeks abusing it driving from Seattle to Hollywood for Bimmerfest, Hollwywood to Vegas for MFest, then back to Seattle and it did everything without skipping a beat. I'm keeping my eyes open for other CTT's, but these seem to be the best in my area at the time.

m5james

I don't know what the cardan shaft is, so I need to research that. Can the coolant pipes be seen with an inspection mirror or a boroscope without removing the intake at all? BMW does similar oil change intervals based on a variable meter on the On Board Computer, which I follow for the most part. They have huge filters, hold upwards of 9 quarts and I use Mobil 1 synthetic in every vehicle I own. I do check the oil usually every other gas fill-up to make sure it's not getting too dark, low, etc. 15k sounds high, but I believe that with advances in these fluids that it's capabl of it after reading posts on www.bobistheoilguy.com after other people submitted the Blackstone Labs oil samples.

Only one vehicle has maintenance records, but surprisingly enough the 05 (with body damage) is in a better condition, as well as having mods. Once again my logic is that someone isn't going to spend the money they did on a vehicle that's devout of general maintenance.

I've put the 20's on both my X5's, and other than not being able to be staggered, that was my biggest reason for not getting 22's on it. I think it looks fine w/ 20's or 22's, but the 22's do fill the wheel wells much better to where I wouldn't be looking into getting it lowered further than stock.

PCA website? Like Porsche Club of America?

m5james

The amount of owners doesn't necessarily bother me. I could get a car w/ 5 owners who took care of it and no smokers or a car w/ one owner who smoked, drove it hard even when the engine was cold and put in regular fuel instead of premium to save money. Records are nice, don't get me wrong...but even with the two I'm looking at, the one with records needs more maintenance than the one w/ a blemish in the rear. The only reason I don't have it's records is simply due to the way in which it was purchased. I like the white, but the distance makes it near impossible to consider. Thanks