Axxlrod

I know it was "refreshed" 2 years ago, but it's basically been the same since it debuted in 2009.

I love my 991, but my kids will be too big to fit in the back seats in a year or two, so a Panamera would be the next logical move.

I've seen the concept versions of the shooting brake "wagon" version, but it seems that might be what the Pajun is based on.

Anybody have any scoop or details on the new version?

Gus_Smedstad

There are lots of rumors, including photos, but I'd take them with a grain of salt. "Spy shots" often photograph something that's deliberately not the same as the production car. Here's an example photo:


The persistent thing I've read is that you can expect a redesign for the 2017 model year, which would mean you'd hear details in mid-2016. The rumors claim they're re-working it for a combined Modular Standard ("MSB") platform with other members of the VW group (VW, Audi, etc.)

Axxlrod

I see. So nothing concrete yet. Thanks for the info.

I'm curious how the Pajun will fit into the lineup also.

FlatSix911

Evidently, not soon enough ...

Gus_Smedstad

Eh, those "100 worst" or "100 best" lists are often about as meaningful as tossing names randomly into a bowl. They have the Panamera as #100, and they have cars that I agree are hideous further up, but they also have cars that don't remotely belong on the list.

While I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that I just don't love my car, particularly compared to the looks of the car I had before, I think the people who go on about how ugly it is are waaay overdoing it. I'm particularly struck by this when they put it side-by-side with sport sedans that look substantially similar to me and praise them while knocking the Panamera.

It's not ugly. It doesn't look like a sports car, but it's much more attractive than the more typical sedan which I find deadly dull. The much praised Tesla model S, for example, while not ugly to my eye, is very very boring. My issue with the Panamera is that it tries to look like a sports car, but not hard enough.

AndrewP

I have heard Porsche sales reps mention launch events later this year for the re-designed Panamera. I have read, In Panorama, I think, that it will be lighter, longer and wider than the current model. Also, that there will be a new NA eight cylinder engine that I assume will be for the PT, PTS and non-turbo GTS when it is introduced with the usual GTS time lag.

Way OT, but here goes: The Panamera is distinctive and has sports car driving dynamics that sits four adults comfortably. The hunchback is ungainly when viewed in isolation, but form follows function and there is far more headroom than in four door "coupes." from MB and BMW that are aesthetically tiresome to me as well as looking quite impractical. I avoided the Pan until I was struck by the GTS and now that I have had it happily for five months, I absolutely love the design, which BTW gets many compliments, especially from women. Drove the Pan turbo at Barber recently and it is a beast that would leave RS7's and the like in its wake in corners. Aside from pure numbers, the Panamera is fun to drive. Think about how long it took for people to warm up to the 356 and then the 911 and about the form follows function concept.

I agree with Gus that the Tesla is a not ugly, but is very boring. Lots of cars from ROW are beginning to look the same or at least have similar styling clues. And what about the low-end interior of the Tesla S for over $100k? And all the prattling on about how fast the new version is has got me a bit upset. Try making more than one hot lap in one at any track you choose and watch it go into safe mode to keep the batteries from igniting or whatever they do when they overheat. Yes, electric is a very big part of the future, but it is still early so needs time to work out the practical limitations. Enduring design cues that evolve from makes like Audi find there way into less inspired manufacturer's model lines. Porsche has and will likely always deliver exceptionally capable cars with designs that evolve to a refined state.

FlatSix911

I would have to agree that the Panamera is not very pleasing to the eye, however, the Tesla is a beautiful inspired design by Franz von Holzhausen.

Gus_Smedstad

Eeek. I'm not happy with how big the car is right now. I don't want longer and wider.

I'm not sure it's really far off topic, since people wondering about the Panamera redesign are talking aesthetics. There's nothing wrong with Panamera performance, and we know virtually nothing about what redesign will hold in functional improvements.

I find the competing sports sedans boring in appearance. Not ugly, but boring. They're sedans. I've never been able to muster any enthusiasm for BMW's sportier cars, because even the coupes like the M3 look like standard sedans, whatever their performance numbers may be.

The only BMW in recent years that's looked sexy to me is the i8. I know some don't care for it because it's so heavily stylized it's almost a car-show concept model, but at least it's not ordinary.

Ditto, Mercedes sedans. If you're talking Mercedes AMG coupes, those are quite distinctive, if not to my personal taste. I'm not a fan of the big Mustang-like grills they tend to have.

The Tesla P85 and P85D are remarkable performers... on the dragstrip. Where cornering doesn't matter, nor does endurance. American obsession with dragstrip numbers has been around for a while. In its way, the P85D is the muscle car of 2015. An energy-efficient, zero-tailpipe emissions muscle car, but a muscle car.

The interesting thing about the P85D is that the P85 was largely limited by battery heat dissipation issues on the track, not the size of the electric motors. Adding a second motor didn't address that at all.

Of course, you can also argue that for most buyers, track performance is irrelevant. They're only asking max performance from the car a few seconds at a time, and then they've reached 70 MPH or passed that granny on the highway and they're back to sustained cruising.

This is clearly personal taste, since that's not beautiful to my eye. It's remarkably ordinary. It doesn't stand out at all, it might as well be a Ford Fusion or an Acura ILX. At most, it's slightly less angular than average.

P. Viby

When looking at the Tesla I almost get the same feeling as when looking at some kid which has tried to squeeze extra hp out of some ordinary car and added big spoilers and stuff. Either you have a sportscar or you don't!!. Don't try to make something out of something that isn't it ! :-) get my point ?

Tesla is to me a nice sedan, nothing more. It is not a sportscar even they have put some bigger electric motors and batteries in the newest model. Yes - it is fast on a straight road from 0 to 100. But I don't see it very useful unless you dont drive much and never to long. The range during winter time with heater, aircon, lights on and stuff is way to low if you ask me. Get the Panamera Hybrid if you wanna go green but still wants a sportscar :-)

AndrewP

It is very fast and the center of gravity is quite low, so the cornering was very impressive as well. I do not dispute that it is not necessarily a sports car, but its performance is much better than some dedicated sports cars. It is far from a Panamera in many important respects. I definitely would go with the Pan Hybrid if I drove more than 10-12k miles a year and gas consumption was a major factor to me.

AMGsound

My only wish is that we see more styling cues from the Panny Sport Turismo that we saw as a concept 2 years ago. We saw a similar front bumper on Macan Turbo, similar LED headlights on the updated Cayenne Turbo, but i want more in the new Panny!

T-Mac

I was on the way back from Las Vegas in my Panamera 4S and pulled into the gas station and look what I saw...4 Panamera test mules and 1 current Panamera. I pulled up to one of them and asked what they were testing and one guy answered, "Not sure what your talking about." I pulled out my iPhone to take some picts, and they sped off. They were all VERY dusty like they were out doing some dirt road Mohave Desert testing? The rear lights, rear side windows and area behind the front wheels were all STICKERS.

About a half hour later, we were on the freeway and low and behold...5 black Panameras! I said, "Wife...take some video of this!" She promptly pulled out her iPhone and started to video them...a couple of the drivers actually gave us the thumbs up. You can see the rear spoiler in one that is completely different then current models. When we got to car 3...they hit the brakes. What an awesome day for a Porsche lover.

T-Mac

Here are a few close ups.

T-Mac

One last pict.

T-Mac

Here is a link to the video.