Panamera e-Hybrid 2014/2015 closeout deals still out there?
04-17-2015, 01:52 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Panamera e-Hybrid 2014/2015 closeout deals still out there?
I remember reading that certain dealers were offering $30-$40k off MSRP. Does anyone know of any dealers with these types of deals as I'm currently shopping this vs. the Model S 70D.
Thanks guys! Al
Thanks guys! Al
04-17-2015, 10:01 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
A quick search on Autotrader shows a few new 2014's nationwide priced around $85k. Most in that price range are 5-10k miles, but there are a few that are under 500 miles.
Note that "new" and "used" don't always mean what they say they mean. I saw one marked as "new," $130k list, asking $85k, which turns out to have 10k miles on it and described as "certified pre-owned" in the details. I saw one marked as "used' with 381 miles on it, listed as CPO as well, but mentions that it's never been titled in the details and still qualifies for the $4700 tax credit.
I own a 2015 SeH, so I can answer any questions you might have about the car. I do suggest you test drive each, because despite the similar price tags overall, I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison. They're different cars in a lot of ways, so it really depends on what you want from the car.
Note that "new" and "used" don't always mean what they say they mean. I saw one marked as "new," $130k list, asking $85k, which turns out to have 10k miles on it and described as "certified pre-owned" in the details. I saw one marked as "used' with 381 miles on it, listed as CPO as well, but mentions that it's never been titled in the details and still qualifies for the $4700 tax credit.
I own a 2015 SeH, so I can answer any questions you might have about the car. I do suggest you test drive each, because despite the similar price tags overall, I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison. They're different cars in a lot of ways, so it really depends on what you want from the car.
04-27-2015, 05:18 PM
#3
Anyone know when the 2016 Cayenne and Panamera's will be available to order? I'm also cross shopping a Cayenne SEH with a Tesla 70D and looking for a 2015 left over with a decent discount.
Gus- what's the best way to maximize your fuel economy on long trip? Do you constantly switch between modes filling and draining the battery? The SEH would work great for me around town but wonder how to optimize the fuel on long trips.
I have a Volt and love it but need something larger and will trade in my 991. I do a lot of regeneration in the Volt (and sometime charge the battery to an 'over full' state) and switch to electric when descending long hills coming back from mountains. Can you do that in the Panamera? What's the best range you've seen from the battery in warm weather, no hills and slower speeds? Did you get the 7.2kW charger?
Thanks in advance.
Gus- what's the best way to maximize your fuel economy on long trip? Do you constantly switch between modes filling and draining the battery? The SEH would work great for me around town but wonder how to optimize the fuel on long trips.
I have a Volt and love it but need something larger and will trade in my 991. I do a lot of regeneration in the Volt (and sometime charge the battery to an 'over full' state) and switch to electric when descending long hills coming back from mountains. Can you do that in the Panamera? What's the best range you've seen from the battery in warm weather, no hills and slower speeds? Did you get the 7.2kW charger?
Thanks in advance.
04-27-2015, 11:03 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I ordered my car in April of 2014, and it was a June build. This made it one of the very first 2015 PSeH's built. Based on that, I'd say that you might be able to order a 2016 now. You'd have to talk to the dealer about the specifics.
Note that they might not have an allocation until late. My dealer was originally talking mid-November delivery. I told them that wouldn't work for me, and they talked PNA into giving them the June build which meant an estimated August delivery. Actual delivery was in fact mid-August.
I've experimented with e-Charge mode, and driving the car on battery power and then recharging with e-Charge turns out to be exactly like just driving in Hybrid mode. I used exactly the same amount of fuel for the same distance. Driving 2 miles added 1 mile of range to the battery, but used 50% more fuel, so it was a total wash. In effect I was storing energy for later.
The main reason to fool around with e-Charge is if you're on a highway cruising, you know you'll be doing some start-and-stop driving, and you don't have enough battery power to do electric driving. Even then, it's a bit of excessive optimization, since the car will always use electricity to pull away from a dead stop, so gasoline city driving is not that bad.
Aside from that, the car is very sophisticated about energy use on long trips. It frequently turns the engine off and coasts, or uses a little bit of battery power, even if it's in Hybrid mode. It works best if you set the cruise control so the car isn't responding to the throttle. Actual observed gas mileage without the battery is about 20 MPG city, 35 MPG at 60 MPH, 33 MPG at 70 MPH.
It doesn't, however, ramp up the regeneration on steep declines. You may want to press the brake somewhat to keep speed down and charge the battery. The power meter makes it very clear where the transition from purely regenerative braking to using the actual brakes happens. I did that, and then re-engaged Cruise once the slope flattened out.
My experience is that I've gotten 60 MPGe in city driving, and 90 on the highway. Start-stop driving hurts energy efficiency more than the wind drag at high speed. Most efficient would be constant cruising at 40 MPH, but who does that?
In terms of electric range, I've gotten 14 miles in the city, 21 on the highway on battery power on flat ground. That's from 100% to 20%. At 20% the car starts reserving battery power for starts and maximum acceleration.
This also works the other way. I stored the car in a parking garage in NY for a week, and the traction battery was absolutely dead when I got it back. The car made a point of charging the battery up to 20%, siphoning power off the drivetrain while cruising even though I wasn't in e-Charge mode.
This makes sense, because if the battery is dead, you can't get the full 416 HP if you demand it.
I didn't get the 7.2 kW charger because it wasn't an option when I ordered. They still had the 2014 configuration screen up.
Charging time with the Porsche EVSE is much slower with 110 volts than 220. I was routinely seeing 10-12 hour charge times before I got a 220 volt line run to the garage. Charging time from 20% to 100% is now about 2 hours, which is a huge, huge improvement. Presumably it'd be 1 hour with 7.2 kW, but you'd need to be sure to get a 40 amp line run.
Note that they might not have an allocation until late. My dealer was originally talking mid-November delivery. I told them that wouldn't work for me, and they talked PNA into giving them the June build which meant an estimated August delivery. Actual delivery was in fact mid-August.
I've experimented with e-Charge mode, and driving the car on battery power and then recharging with e-Charge turns out to be exactly like just driving in Hybrid mode. I used exactly the same amount of fuel for the same distance. Driving 2 miles added 1 mile of range to the battery, but used 50% more fuel, so it was a total wash. In effect I was storing energy for later.
The main reason to fool around with e-Charge is if you're on a highway cruising, you know you'll be doing some start-and-stop driving, and you don't have enough battery power to do electric driving. Even then, it's a bit of excessive optimization, since the car will always use electricity to pull away from a dead stop, so gasoline city driving is not that bad.
Aside from that, the car is very sophisticated about energy use on long trips. It frequently turns the engine off and coasts, or uses a little bit of battery power, even if it's in Hybrid mode. It works best if you set the cruise control so the car isn't responding to the throttle. Actual observed gas mileage without the battery is about 20 MPG city, 35 MPG at 60 MPH, 33 MPG at 70 MPH.
It doesn't, however, ramp up the regeneration on steep declines. You may want to press the brake somewhat to keep speed down and charge the battery. The power meter makes it very clear where the transition from purely regenerative braking to using the actual brakes happens. I did that, and then re-engaged Cruise once the slope flattened out.
My experience is that I've gotten 60 MPGe in city driving, and 90 on the highway. Start-stop driving hurts energy efficiency more than the wind drag at high speed. Most efficient would be constant cruising at 40 MPH, but who does that?
In terms of electric range, I've gotten 14 miles in the city, 21 on the highway on battery power on flat ground. That's from 100% to 20%. At 20% the car starts reserving battery power for starts and maximum acceleration.
This also works the other way. I stored the car in a parking garage in NY for a week, and the traction battery was absolutely dead when I got it back. The car made a point of charging the battery up to 20%, siphoning power off the drivetrain while cruising even though I wasn't in e-Charge mode.
This makes sense, because if the battery is dead, you can't get the full 416 HP if you demand it.
I didn't get the 7.2 kW charger because it wasn't an option when I ordered. They still had the 2014 configuration screen up.
Charging time with the Porsche EVSE is much slower with 110 volts than 220. I was routinely seeing 10-12 hour charge times before I got a 220 volt line run to the garage. Charging time from 20% to 100% is now about 2 hours, which is a huge, huge improvement. Presumably it'd be 1 hour with 7.2 kW, but you'd need to be sure to get a 40 amp line run.
04-28-2015, 10:25 AM
#5
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Gus - I have the 7.2kw charger on my Cayenne SEH and can charge my battery in about an hour and 15 min.
To the OP on long trips is where I normally get my worst mileage (still not bad at about 25mpg) the car shines on shorter trips (under 100 miles). Especially if you have an option to charge at some of your stops (I do at several mtg locations). My last tank netted me 700 miles (light still wasn't on) and after fueling (18.x gallons)I averaged 38 mpg. Which was my best to date. That tank had a lot of short trips (and a few long). On some of the short ones I never even start the motor. My average mpg over the 4k miles I have on the Cayenne is at about 33 so far. 2x that of my previous Range Rover Sport. In a much nicer car.
To the OP on long trips is where I normally get my worst mileage (still not bad at about 25mpg) the car shines on shorter trips (under 100 miles). Especially if you have an option to charge at some of your stops (I do at several mtg locations). My last tank netted me 700 miles (light still wasn't on) and after fueling (18.x gallons)I averaged 38 mpg. Which was my best to date. That tank had a lot of short trips (and a few long). On some of the short ones I never even start the motor. My average mpg over the 4k miles I have on the Cayenne is at about 33 so far. 2x that of my previous Range Rover Sport. In a much nicer car.
04-28-2015, 05:34 PM
#6
I ordered my car in April of 2014, and it was a June build. This made it one of the very first 2015 PSeH's built. Based on that, I'd say that you might be able to order a 2016 now. You'd have to talk to the dealer about the specifics.
Note that they might not have an allocation until late. My dealer was originally talking mid-November delivery. I told them that wouldn't work for me, and they talked PNA into giving them the June build which meant an estimated August delivery. Actual delivery was in fact mid-August.
I've experimented with e-Charge mode, and driving the car on battery power and then recharging with e-Charge turns out to be exactly like just driving in Hybrid mode. I used exactly the same amount of fuel for the same distance. Driving 2 miles added 1 mile of range to the battery, but used 50% more fuel, so it was a total wash. In effect I was storing energy for later.
The main reason to fool around with e-Charge is if you're on a highway cruising, you know you'll be doing some start-and-stop driving, and you don't have enough battery power to do electric driving. Even then, it's a bit of excessive optimization, since the car will always use electricity to pull away from a dead stop, so gasoline city driving is not that bad.
Aside from that, the car is very sophisticated about energy use on long trips. It frequently turns the engine off and coasts, or uses a little bit of battery power, even if it's in Hybrid mode. It works best if you set the cruise control so the car isn't responding to the throttle. Actual observed gas mileage without the battery is about 20 MPG city, 35 MPG at 60 MPH, 33 MPG at 70 MPH.
It doesn't, however, ramp up the regeneration on steep declines. You may want to press the brake somewhat to keep speed down and charge the battery. The power meter makes it very clear where the transition from purely regenerative braking to using the actual brakes happens. I did that, and then re-engaged Cruise once the slope flattened out.
My experience is that I've gotten 60 MPGe in city driving, and 90 on the highway. Start-stop driving hurts energy efficiency more than the wind drag at high speed. Most efficient would be constant cruising at 40 MPH, but who does that?
In terms of electric range, I've gotten 14 miles in the city, 21 on the highway on battery power on flat ground. That's from 100% to 20%. At 20% the car starts reserving battery power for starts and maximum acceleration.
This also works the other way. I stored the car in a parking garage in NY for a week, and the traction battery was absolutely dead when I got it back. The car made a point of charging the battery up to 20%, siphoning power off the drivetrain while cruising even though I wasn't in e-Charge mode.
This makes sense, because if the battery is dead, you can't get the full 416 HP if you demand it.
I didn't get the 7.2 kW charger because it wasn't an option when I ordered. They still had the 2014 configuration screen up.
Charging time with the Porsche EVSE is much slower with 110 volts than 220. I was routinely seeing 10-12 hour charge times before I got a 220 volt line run to the garage. Charging time from 20% to 100% is now about 2 hours, which is a huge, huge improvement. Presumably it'd be 1 hour with 7.2 kW, but you'd need to be sure to get a 40 amp line run.
Note that they might not have an allocation until late. My dealer was originally talking mid-November delivery. I told them that wouldn't work for me, and they talked PNA into giving them the June build which meant an estimated August delivery. Actual delivery was in fact mid-August.
I've experimented with e-Charge mode, and driving the car on battery power and then recharging with e-Charge turns out to be exactly like just driving in Hybrid mode. I used exactly the same amount of fuel for the same distance. Driving 2 miles added 1 mile of range to the battery, but used 50% more fuel, so it was a total wash. In effect I was storing energy for later.
The main reason to fool around with e-Charge is if you're on a highway cruising, you know you'll be doing some start-and-stop driving, and you don't have enough battery power to do electric driving. Even then, it's a bit of excessive optimization, since the car will always use electricity to pull away from a dead stop, so gasoline city driving is not that bad.
Aside from that, the car is very sophisticated about energy use on long trips. It frequently turns the engine off and coasts, or uses a little bit of battery power, even if it's in Hybrid mode. It works best if you set the cruise control so the car isn't responding to the throttle. Actual observed gas mileage without the battery is about 20 MPG city, 35 MPG at 60 MPH, 33 MPG at 70 MPH.
It doesn't, however, ramp up the regeneration on steep declines. You may want to press the brake somewhat to keep speed down and charge the battery. The power meter makes it very clear where the transition from purely regenerative braking to using the actual brakes happens. I did that, and then re-engaged Cruise once the slope flattened out.
My experience is that I've gotten 60 MPGe in city driving, and 90 on the highway. Start-stop driving hurts energy efficiency more than the wind drag at high speed. Most efficient would be constant cruising at 40 MPH, but who does that?
In terms of electric range, I've gotten 14 miles in the city, 21 on the highway on battery power on flat ground. That's from 100% to 20%. At 20% the car starts reserving battery power for starts and maximum acceleration.
This also works the other way. I stored the car in a parking garage in NY for a week, and the traction battery was absolutely dead when I got it back. The car made a point of charging the battery up to 20%, siphoning power off the drivetrain while cruising even though I wasn't in e-Charge mode.
This makes sense, because if the battery is dead, you can't get the full 416 HP if you demand it.
I didn't get the 7.2 kW charger because it wasn't an option when I ordered. They still had the 2014 configuration screen up.
Charging time with the Porsche EVSE is much slower with 110 volts than 220. I was routinely seeing 10-12 hour charge times before I got a 220 volt line run to the garage. Charging time from 20% to 100% is now about 2 hours, which is a huge, huge improvement. Presumably it'd be 1 hour with 7.2 kW, but you'd need to be sure to get a 40 amp line run.
Did you guys specify which charging cable you wanted? I'm seeing a NEAM 14-50 and a 14-30 but not sure what the default cable is or if it comes with an adapter. I'm getting a 14-50 installed in my cabin as it seems to be the best choice for fast charging either a Model S or ramped down for a 7.2 kW system like the SEH.
Also was wondering why you don't get more range around town on all electric mode. My Volt uses much less charge in stop and go traffic that on the freeway. I would think wind resistance and speed would be a much bigger drain than starting and stopping. Do you know how many miles are averaging per kWh used?
I'm really liking what I'm reading and the Cayenne SEH might be the perfect car for my 20 mile commute (charge at work) and to go to the mountains. Was hoping to drive one this week but dealer sold the only one they had ($132K!) as I thought it was gonna sit for a while. There's a slight desire to test drive the Cayenne Turbo but in the long run that is more an emotional choice that will quickly go away in a few months of heading to the gas station.
04-28-2015, 11:40 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Yes, you can definitely get 30-35 MPG in the Panamera without special effort. The Cayenne gets a bit less because it has a higher coefficient of drag. Robotpedlr and I had a short discussion about that a while back. His 25 Mpg figure is partially about that and partially about 80 MPH.
I haven't tested the car for vampiric drain, but I know it was moved several times in the garage, including just an hour before I picked it up, because the car reported that. These NY garages pack the cars in like sardines and move them around when someone wants a car. The battery was at maybe 15% at the start of the week.
I did not specify which cables I wanted. It came with a 110v and a 6-50 cable, which is apparently something of a defacto standard for EVs. It does not come with any adapters, but those are easy to obtain.
It's true that many EVs such as the i3 are more efficient in city driving than highway. It may be that the PSeH is not aggressive enough in regenerative braking - I know I have to brake well ahead of my normal distance if I want to avoid using the brake pads entirely, and I usually don't make a special effort to do so.
There are days I feel like I should have gotten a PTT despite my intent to use less gas. On those days I put the car in Sport mode and just drive without focusing on electric efficiency. That generally helps a lot.
I haven't tested the car for vampiric drain, but I know it was moved several times in the garage, including just an hour before I picked it up, because the car reported that. These NY garages pack the cars in like sardines and move them around when someone wants a car. The battery was at maybe 15% at the start of the week.
I did not specify which cables I wanted. It came with a 110v and a 6-50 cable, which is apparently something of a defacto standard for EVs. It does not come with any adapters, but those are easy to obtain.
It's true that many EVs such as the i3 are more efficient in city driving than highway. It may be that the PSeH is not aggressive enough in regenerative braking - I know I have to brake well ahead of my normal distance if I want to avoid using the brake pads entirely, and I usually don't make a special effort to do so.
There are days I feel like I should have gotten a PTT despite my intent to use less gas. On those days I put the car in Sport mode and just drive without focusing on electric efficiency. That generally helps a lot.
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04-29-2015, 08:42 PM
#9
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Thanks to all for your feedback! This definitely helps.
05-02-2015, 03:46 PM
#10
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On my Cayenne SEH after about 4,500 miles I am averaging 32mpg and hit a high for my most recent fill up of 38mpg (700 miles on the tank and didn't even hit the fuel light when I filled her)
I do have the 7.2kw charger and charge at several of my customer sites (hence the high mpg). So if you like using apps like plug share you can always find some great free charging locations. It's become some what of a game. Like trying to get a high score on a video game.
I love the doctor Jekyll / Mr Hyde personality shift when you go from electric mode to sport mode. Best of both worlds in my opinion.
If your commute to work is 20 miles and can plug in at the office, you will love it.
Mine also came with the 6-50 plug as standard. You can now pick in the configurator
I do have the 7.2kw charger and charge at several of my customer sites (hence the high mpg). So if you like using apps like plug share you can always find some great free charging locations. It's become some what of a game. Like trying to get a high score on a video game.
I love the doctor Jekyll / Mr Hyde personality shift when you go from electric mode to sport mode. Best of both worlds in my opinion.
If your commute to work is 20 miles and can plug in at the office, you will love it.
Mine also came with the 6-50 plug as standard. You can now pick in the configurator
05-02-2015, 05:52 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I don't know about "always." There are a lot of free charging stations out there, but when I was staying near Times Square, the handful of charging stations in the vicinity were all $0.49 / kWh, which is like paying $5.25 for a gallon of gas to be used in Hybrid mode.
I think the "always" is because you're in Washington State, which is one of the better areas for charging infrastructure.
I think the "always" is because you're in Washington State, which is one of the better areas for charging infrastructure.
05-02-2015, 06:24 PM
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I don't know about "always." There are a lot of free charging stations out there, but when I was staying near Times Square, the handful of charging stations in the vicinity were all $0.49 / kWh, which is like paying $5.25 for a gallon of gas to be used in Hybrid mode. I think the "always" is because you're in Washington State, which is one of the better areas for charging infrastructure.
Electric is also very inexpensive here. I pay 8.7cents per kw at home. So refilling my battery runs me about 70 cents