Gus_Smedstad

I decided I wanted a Panamera S e Hybrid in April, but wanted an interesting color like Ruby Red or Sapphire Blue. Neither was available in stock, so I ended up ordering. I took delivery yesterday, drove it a bit today.

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The dealer delivered it to me with the battery completely empty. This didn't really surprise me - I don't think they understand the car at all. When I test drove one, they didn't have that one charged either. I charged it before taking it anywhere.

One thing I thought was a bit weird and silly is that the car doesn't have an analog speedometer. There's a digital one below the central tachometer, but in the #2 place, where you'd normally see a speedometer, is a power meter. It seemed frivolous to lose a significant instrument for this.



After driving the car today, I realized this is the electric power's equivalent of the tach, and thus it is important, if you're trying at all to maximize efficiency. In e-Power mode the car is pure electric until the power meter gets over 25%, the green zone, and then the gas engine turns on. It's very easy to do this in ordinary driving. The EPA includes some gas usage in the PSeH's electric-mode MPGe, and I now understand why - if you're not keeping an eye on the power meter, you're going to use gas.

Similarly, if you're braking, the meter tells you how hard you can press the brakes and recapture energy. Go beyond the bottom of the "charge" zone, and you're using the real brake pads, not the electric engine braking to generate power.

I had envisioned staying in completely electric mode for routine driving, only reserving the full engine power for times when I really wanted acceleration. I don't think that's going to happen. The electric is very nice for 0-5 MPH, giving real authority from a standing stop in a way that usually requires a lot of gas. It's not so nice above about 15-20 MPH. I experimented with pegging the power meter at 25%, getting maximum acceleration from pure electric, and getting up to 35-40 MPH is definitely slower than I find acceptable. This is a heavy car (4600 lbs), and the 95 HP of the electric motor isn't enough for my taste.

This isn't to say the car is slow. If you're using gas and electric, it's seriously fast. If I'm not going for efficiency, 50 MPH arrives so effortlessly I'm not even sure how I got there. Nor it it particularly inefficient even if you're messing about with high acceleration. Today's city-driving trip reported 36.8 MPG according to the car, but that doesn't include the electricity used. By my estimate, I used 0.24 gallons and 4 kWh to travel 8.7 miles, which works out to about 25 MPG. Which isn't nearly Prius numbers, but this isn't a Prius. My wife's Cayman S gets maybe 14 MPG on the same trip, it's 65% of the weight of the Panamera. The acceleration feels similar as long as they're both in Sports or Sports+.

I'm still trying to get a feel for the car. Unlike the other Panameras, it doesn't have PDK, because PDK can't deal with the hybrid powertrain. Instead it has an 8-speed automatic transmission, though the controls are the same. I started out in full manual, because I've been driving a 6-speed stick for 16 years, and I wanted to retain that part of the sports car feel.

It didn't work out at all. The issue is that the engine revs up to 6000 RPM insanely fast in first gear. I apply the throttle and BAM, it's instantly time to shift. Further, shifting isn't instant, and I found myself double-tapping the shift paddle, going from 1st to 3rd in my urgency to drop the RPMs. I so blew the "don't rev above 4000 RPM" break-in advice, but that doesn't worry me because I'm on the "it's not that important" side of the break-in debate. Since full manual control seems so problematic, I'm reluctantly letting the transmission do its own thing.

I've read a lot of negativity about Sports+ with PDK when in auto, mainly that it revs way too high. This wasn't my experience with the ZF 8 speed automatic at all. It'll rev to about 4000 if I'm not flooring it, but once I start cruising, the engine often goes off entirely as the electric power takes over. I thought that was only going to be true in e-Power mode, but it apparently applies to Sports+ as well.

The police were out in force today. I saw an officer on foot ambush the car in front of me, stepping out from cover, tagging them with a radar gun, and then wave them over. I noticed an unmarked car tailing me, and shortly afterward he blipped his siren at me. I thought I'd gotten nailed even though I was being careful, but it turned out he just wanted to tell me that my gas cap was open. Of course it wasn't actually a gas cap, it was the cap for the electric charging port. I'd forgotten to close it this morning.

My main complaint about the car is that is suffers from serious tunnel vision to the rear. The rear hatch looks like an expanse of glass, but it's pretty far away from the driver, and visibility through the rear passenger windows is poor. I'm quite grateful it has a reverse camera. I also sprung for a Lane Change Assist, but I haven't noticed it doing anything yet.

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RED HORSE

Thanks for the report. I was at my dealer last week and told them to call me when they get the 2015 order guide in. I'm seriously thinking about ordering one.

extanker

i had a panny loaner for 2 days and gave a report here including rear vision but got nixed off. oh well. i sure hope you will get those brake calipers painted...........real soon

GVA-SFO

Thanks a LOT for this very nice report.
It would be great to have more, as per your experience and driving feeling.

I can tell you that in my case, after about 15'000 miles, I'm now "fine" with the rear view, not to say that the rear view is getting better with the miles... , but you take the habit to watch using all the possible ways, ..including in the camera monitor, when you are in reverse.
Well done for the lane change, I do not have it, but I'm very confident that this is a GREAT safety tool. Here too, without it, you take the habit, that beside watching the internal mirror, and looking at the external one, you learn to move your head in order to see more in the mirrors, and also turn your head over the shoulder (anyway a very good habit to have).
Not a great sales speech, but, I think, you better do that, before changing lane !

In my case, the one that I'm NOT getting OK with is PDK.
Even after 15'000 miles, I hate it.
With a manual shifter, the men drive the machine, and the machine does what the men tell her to do.
With PDK, the machine drive the men.
As my mood change faster (according also to a lot of external actions, i.e.: weather, truck in the front of me, water on the road, etc, etc..) than the time to select one of the 3 modes, ..and, in a more subtle transitions ..than 3 modes, PDK is NOT something that I like at all, ..for a road car. (I already wrote that I ate the commands of PDK, i.e.: the stupid "clickers" and the shifter that works in the opposite directions of a normal sport car.
By the way, I wonder what the guys that own a 2014 GT3 and one (or more) other PDK Porsche, think about that !!!)

Well, all to say that it would be great to hear more about your driving feeling about this particular Panamera, that is quite high tech.

Another comment that I have from reading your (great) text, is about receiving your car with an empty battery pack. It is VERY bad to have a Li-ion battery been fully discharged. Or, for the batteries, this could be quite close than running a gas engine with no oil !
Have you heard of the Tesla that have been "bricked" ?
I wonder if Tesla maintain the warranty on the battery, ..if you have discharging it completely !
It would be great to learn a bit more about that.
Any specialists here on this topic about empty Li-Ion consequences ??

Robotpedlr

GVA - I am sure the battery pack was not "empty", but just not charged to the point that it was able to start in battery only (electric) mode. The battery will not let you run it to empty.

Gus_Smedstad

Yeah, displaying zero charge on the battery, which means it won't do anything with the electric motor, doesn't mean the battery is really completely discharged. It almost certainly still has a reserve of 20% that isn't displayed.

Official capacity of the battery is 9.4 kWh, but you're only allowed to use 7.5 kWh of that, according to what I've read.

GVA-SFO

OK, good, it make sense !
Just for the fun, let's remember the physics : one liter of gas (about a quart ..a little more than full !) is approximatively equal in energy to 10 kWh !
...But, I'm one of those guys that says that a gas engine in a car has a ratio of efficiency that is NOT better than the range of 15%.
When you fill a gas tank of a (gas) Panamera (about 100 liters), you basically load about 1'000 kWh of energy !
So, it is great to see what you can do with 7.5 kWh with the electric motor. (..that has a ratio of energy higher than 90% !)
Or, see what kind of mileage a Tesla S 85 (85kWh of battery) can do.

Gus_Smedstad

I took another drive today, this time sticking strictly to electric. Not only is this kind of slow, it has a problem with hills. I've got a fairly steep grade near my house. The car was at 20 MPH when I hit the hill, and stayed there until I reached the top. On the other hand, I had no trouble keeping up with traffic if I was behind other cars. So "slow" by my standards is fairly normal for most traffic. It was when I was first off the line at a stoplight that it felt slow.

I made it 13.6 miles in city driving until the battery reached 20% and the gas engine kicked in. The indicated range with a full charge was 14 miles, so that's entirely consistent, at least for start-stop city driving. The question is, how much energy was that, really? Was it 80% of 9.4 kWh, or 80% of 7.5 kWh? There was definitely some usable energy left, the car just wanted to use the gas engine as well.

I'm going to assume it's 80% of 9.4 kWh, or 7.5 kWh. Which means I used 550 watt-hours per mile, or 62 MPGe for city driving. That's believable, since the MPGe rating of the Tesla S is 88 MPGe City, and the cars weigh about the same. The official EPA rating is 50 MPGe, but I'm pretty sure they botched the test since the official rating includes gasoline usage. You don't have to use gasoline while the battery's charged, but it's very easy to do so inadvertently.

After hitting 13.6 miles, I turned the air conditioning back on and switched into Sports+. I wanted to see the polar opposite, again in city driving. I got 20 MPG over the next 10.5 miles with the battery effectively depleted. Not completely depleted, obviously, but as low as the car really wants it to go. It's worth noting that sometimes when I was cruising, the power meter said power was going from the gas engine to the wheels and the battery. So even though I wasn't in e-Charge mode, coasting, or braking, it was still making an effort to charge the battery.

This is understandable. If there's no power reserve in the battery, the car doesn't have its full 416 HP available. The car wants a power reserve for acceleration.

20 MPG city is less than the EPA rating of 23, but I was driving the way I want to drive, rather than puttering along at electric-only speeds. Traffic was a limit, of course, but I still got a few chances to accelerate. Again, comparing it to my wife's Cayman, I'd get at most 15 MPG doing the same kind of driving, despite less weight and less total power, so the hybrid system does help once it's reduced to recycling energy from braking instead of using power stored from the grid.

For a 24 mile trip, I used 0.53 gallons of gas and 7.5 kWh of electricity. Combining both legs, that was about 32 MPGe overall considering electricity use. If you only count gas, the way the car displays it, it was 45 MPG. Again, entirely city driving. About half driving in a relatively restrained way, about half not.

Tomorrow, time allowing, I'll try similar tests at highway speeds.

I did notice the Lane Change Assist warning lights several times on this trip, so I have a better feel for this. I don't think they're entirely necessary on the driver's side, since I always spotted the car with a head check. It is a time saver, since a fast glance at the LCA lights tells me I'm blocked before the head check, and it's also safer because a head check means taking my eyes off the road ahead. I'd never rely on the LCA alone, a head check is always necessary, but it's helpful. I think it's significantly more helpful on the passenger's side, where getting a clear view can be difficult.

WHEELDYNAMICSROB

beautiful

Gus_Smedstad

I got to take the car out for a 100 mile highway trip. Speeds were low 60's since it was a ring road. I got 16.7 electric-only miles this time, and again the car dropped out of pure electric mode when the battery hit 20%. This works out to 450 watt-hours per mile, or 76 MPGe.

Once I was past this, I reset the trip meter, and continued at highway speeds with the battery generally not contributing. I got 35 MPG. I don't particularly understand how that works, since all the hybrid advantages are out the window when I'm cruising at a fixed speed. The lighter weight, similar power Panamera S doesn't get that kind of highway gas mileage.

I very much wanted to test the efficiency of the charge mode, but my test got aborted when I ran into stop-and-go traffic. Over the 11 miles of the test, I regained about 30% charge, and ran 24 MPG. Assuming the 35 MPG baseline, I burned 0.14 gallons of gasoline to store 2.8 kWh, which is about 60% of the energy capacity of the gasoline. That seems very high, I was expecting 35% or so. It really needs another test with a longer baseline.

I let the trip calculation continue to run, and for the remaining trip, including a lot of stop-and-go, I had 31 MPG over 27 miles, including both the charging segment and then battery use at low speeds. Since the battery started at 20% and ended at 20%, that's a real gas mileage figure that isn't cheating by not counting electrical energy.

GarrettP1

Gus,

The majesty of this car is the engineering. I don't want to seem like I am damning it with faint praise; I purchased the car specifically for this.

In Sport Plus Mode it scoots. The suspension tightens up, and the electric motor is there to act just like a N2O tank/injection that can last 10X what a tank of nitrous can do. The computer picks your shift algorithm. It's done because you can't calculate when to shift if the electric motor is coming on and off line. It's not that you aren't clever enough, it's that the computer is smarter than any of us will ever be for that particular calculation.

Where you save money with this car (and none of us purchased it to save money) is when you plug it in every night. I already have a Nissan Leaf; this Panamera only makes me happier that I purchased the Bosch 30 amp (240V) charging station last year. About 2 hours (from electric "empty") and I am fully charged. Once again the computer will choose for me the best usage pattern to maximize fuel economy.

If you are only commuting 40 or less miles (each way) daily you are going to be amazed by how little gas it sips.
This isn't the fastest or most agile Panamera out there. It is the only Panamera that will still be running when the jihadi's blow up all the oil wells in the Middle East next spring.

I love the car because I am impressed by the science behind it. It is absolutely the best engineered automobile that I have ever driven in my life. And it has lot's of buttons. I mean seriously. Lot's and lot's of buttons. That can only be a good thing.

I don't want you to think I don't like fast. I spent 6 years building a mid-engine Riley chassis car with 650 hp. It feels like it's glued to the road on corners. The g-forces inside it could snap my neck.

As I told my wife: the S e isn't the car I would drive at Lemans. It's the car I would drive to Lemans.

Garrett

rijowysock

interesting choice, not sure i would ever go electric/hybrid...

Gus_Smedstad

That's pretty much it.

I love testing the technology, which is why I've been doing all these test runs. Just today I did a 120-mile run to check the efficiency of the e-Charge mode. It turns out it's exactly as efficient at storing extra power in the battery as it is driving the car on gas.

Driving on the highway at ~70 MPH, it took 39.6 miles to recharge from 20% to 100%, at a displayed MPG of 23.8. I then drove a further 21 milies on pure electric before the battery dropped to 20% again. The total MPG for that 60.6 mile segment was 34.5 - which is what I consistently get when driving in Hybrid mode at speed.

Not one of the reviews I've read has had any hard numbers on how e-Charge works. They just say it "hurts gas mileage" and leave it at that. Except that it doesn't, really. I used 50% more gas, but I also saved up 50% more mileage.

So now I know. Is it of practical value? I guess if I was down to 20%, was on the highway for a while, and knew I had a bunch of city driving at the end, charging on the road would store up electricity for where it's most useful. Stop-and-start driving. The main thing is I know now.

I also know the EPA figures aren't very accurate, but that doesn't surprise me. They don't do proper road tests, they do everything on a dyno, and they completely guess at things like air resistance. The know it's wrong so they have fudge factors to "correct" it. And clearly they were heavy on the throttle for the pure-electric test, because they used gas and you don't need to. My real electric MPGe figures have run between 62 and 98 MPGe, not 50.

I too like fast. All the Science I'm doing make it sound like I'm focused on pure economy, but if I wanted that, I'd own a Leaf or a BMW i3. I just want to know the numbers.

In practice, I prefer Sports+. I like the boost off the line. I'm still trying to figure where the line between tire squealing and slow is in Sports+. It's a fine one, because you get the tire squeals with a relatively light throttle. It may partly be brand new tires, of course. The dealer mentioned they don't get full traction for the first 700 miles or so.

I'm not so sure about the shifting being that great. It's not a PDK, and it's kind of slow to shift. Yet it's clear I'm not going to get good results in manual since it's difficult to figure out the timing on getting out of 1st, since it unwinds so quickly.

Melody2020

Congrats on the e-hybrid and thanks for this post. Really interesting to read everyone's experiences so far with the is car. We leased our 2014 e-hybrid on 8/29 and was curious to see if anyone has been able to get a consistent 20-22 electric range charge on their car yet. We plug it in every night, and the most e-range we were able to get was 17 miles. Any tips or tricks to extend the range?

Gus_Smedstad

Basically, drive without interruptions. It's the usual city stop-start vs. highway mileage issue. I'm getting about 60 MPGe city, 90 highway, which translates to a range of about 14 miles city and 21 highway.