Polar993

I am in the market for a pre-owned Panamera. I need something with all-whee-drive, and I'm looking to spend roughly $70-$75K.

I've narrowed my choices to either:

2010 Panamera Turbo - Loaded with under 20,000 miles, CPO

or

2012 Panamera 4S - Loaded with under 20,000 miles, CPO

Through my exhaustive searches of classifieds on eBay, Cars.com, AutoTrader, etc., both of these cars are of roughly the same value.

I have never driven either car, but I have to assume that the Turbo is incredible!

This will be my daily driver, and will replace a 2012 BMW X6 5.0. I only put about 5,000 per year on my daily driver, and I have an E60 M5 as my other weekend car. The M5 has lots of mods (lowered, Eisenmann Race, Hartge wheels & spoilers, etc.). The M5 is def not setup as a daily driver.

I am seeking the advice of all of you on the forum as to your recommendation of either the 2010 Turbo or the 2012 4S.

Has the Panamera gone through much of a change from the original model year to 2012 or to 2014 for that matter? Visually they look quite similar.

Is the performance of the Turbo so much better than the 4S that there's no comparison between the two?

Is the Turbo too much of a car for a daily driver? I drive to a commuter parking garage in Greenwich, CT, where the car sits for 10 hrs a day. In the garage are at least 10 Panameras, some Aston Martins, many 911s, Maseratis, etc. There's no shortage of nice cars in there, and the spaces are nice and wide!

Any feedback you can provide would be most appreciated!

Thanks!!!

Mollamar

I recently bought a 2012 Turbo to be my daily driver. I would not say that it is too much car, but you've got to have a certain special kind of commute (or impatience) to make best use of the extra performance. For sure, though, I'd get a CPO.

Chumpster

I compared the 4S and the Turbo in 2011. I got the turbo and use it daily. Nobody NEEDS the turbo, but it is something special. My decision in part because Turbo came standard with a lot of things that were only options on the 4S. I can't remember exactly, maybe $15-$20k of neat stuff. Compare the option packages on the two you are looking at: the Turbo may come out well ahead. Then tell yourself that the obscene extra power was free!

MJBird993

The depreciation on the turbo is shocking; nearly as shocking as the 4S. I owned an S, never driven the turbo. Either one will be fine, but you really should drive them both and make up your own mind. CPO is probably a darn fine idea - although these cars are pretty reliable, any breakdown will likely be quite expensive.

supercup

Regardless of what you get - do get CPO or a car with extended warranty. If you live in warm weather climate i would consider an S as well as a 4S if you decide to go naturally aspirated.. Can't go wrong with a Turbo - more than you need but will put stupid grin on your face day after day.

Remember options vary greatly so cars should be looked at closely and you should develop your own "must have" option list and be sure the car you get has at least those things. Lane Change Assist, sport chrono, air suspension etc... Cars may vary in price buy you might also find one has $20k - $30k in options over the other. So you need to refine what you want and what you are willing to pay for.

I went from an E60 M5 to a PTT - you will not be happy giving up 100 hp on a daily basis, if you dont go with the Turbo. I owned every M5 to date imported to the USA, always as a daily driver. The Panyy is the first car to compare and the PTT or PGTS are simply better cars. The S and 4S are great cars as well, but give up some grunt that you will miss coming from the M5.

All that being said I would buy the newest car you can afford - warranty is important. When they mentinoed above depreciation is shocking - that is true and to your advantage buying a preowned car. Many dealers are offering $10k back of KBB on trade and the residuals on leased cars coming back were quite low, returning cars in the low 70K range for turbo's. So if you look hard you should find what you want at a reasonable price.

Good luck with your search - you will not be disappointed.

GVA-SFO

A very (very) good question.
True that the advantage of the Turbo, is that you get for example air suspension "for free", when, on a 4S, you have to check carefully to have it (imo, a must have, ..but, this is "personal" !)
After having driven (hard, ..and also smooth) both, on a cone track, I went for a 4S (with air suspension and "sport plus"). The reason : both car have the PDK "trimmed" (in "normal" mode, to shift up as soon as possible, in order to be as low as possible in CO2 emission. (You turn the key, leave your drive way, ..and hop, ..you are in 7th !)
The result is that when you want to shift driving mode, i.e.: from grand fa mode into wild mode, it takes "long" for a 4S (the reason why I still hate PDK), but, I felt that it took for ever with a Turbo, i.e.: to built pressure in the turbos, you need rpm, and to get rpm, you need to shift down. PDK is instant to shift one gear down, (i.e.: while in 7, the 6 is always in place in the second shaft), but, doing 7 to 3 takes time.
And when on 3, you get rpm, and then built pressure on the turbo... and then it goes, well, or, better said: much more than very well.
So, this was the reason I went 4S instead of Turbo for a daily.
Ah, by the way, if, as a daily, you drive a Turbo in such a way that you always have pressure on your turbos, ..then, I think your driver license life time could be at very serious risks, ..because, the Turbo is a hell of a strong machine, ..when the turbo pressure is up.
Also, anyway, imo : NOTHING should pass the ramp without a Porsche CPO.

Gus_Smedstad

There are two fairly simple solutions to that. Press the Sport button, or put the shifter in Manual.

When my Panamera comes, my plan is to drive in manual mode. Probably using the stick to shift initially, since I've never used paddles and I'm not used to them.

It's not so much that I have a problem with automatic shifting, it's that I've learned from the Cayman that Sport or Sport+ is a lot more responsive to the throttle, but I've been warned that those modes like to keep the RPM too high for normal driving.

I do plan on experimenting, but my expectation is that I'll end up in manual.

MJBird993

One of the reasons I got rid of my Panamera S is because of the PDK... and that includes manual mode. I found that first gear was just too low, the engine was screaming and I couldn't get it into second quickly enough. That and snapping my neck every time I forgot that it was going to do that.

Anyone else experience this, or is it just me?

Gus, you better drive one again in the mode that you expect to be using everyday.

Gus_Smedstad

My car is in Davisville, so in theory I should be able to drive it and share my experiences in 2-3 weeks.

GVA-SFO

Well, it is personal for sure, but in my side, driving in sport or sport plus in a daily mode is simply not nice. I do understand MJBird993 very well.

This is the biggest problem of PDK, by nature of fact, it is computer driven gearbox, and it simply cannot shift ..like each of us would like, in term of timing.
The second is the very stupid clickers, that are totally innapropriate for shifting.
I can add that the third is the fact that the central lever works in the opposite as a real car should, i.e.: the only way is to PULL to shift up ! (i NEVER use it, too dangerous for breaking "habits".
Having these from a manufacturer like Porsche is just total non sense.

For me, the Panamera would be perfect with a manual gearbox.

1Carnut

I have owned cars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, BMW) with pretty much every form of paddle shift on the market, but I've never driven a car more difficult to drive in manual mode than the PDK in my Panamera. The engine spools up so fast that you need to be constantly shifting to keep it in its sweet spot. I do drive it manual mode ( I have a custom made multi function wheel with techart paddle shifters to make shifting easier) at times but since I have two 3 pedal cars as well I tend to leave it in auto mode most of the time.

Gus_Smedstad

I don't really understand what you want from the transmission. You initially said it was too tame, shifting up too quickly in normal mode to maximize fuel efficiency. That implies you want a more aggressive shift profile. But sports / sports+ is too aggressive? Or do you mean something else by "not nice?"

I did drive around a bit in Sports+ during my Panamera test drive, and I don't remember it being "not nice," but that was 10-15 minutes of driving 3 months ago.

My more recent experience is with our new Cayman S, which is a 6-speed manual. I really like Sports for basic driving with that car. Sports+ only has one issue with a manual and basic driving, the car blips the throttle when I'm shifting, which is a bit much if I'm just coming to a stop at a traffic light. It doesn't actually impair my driving in that mode, that blip just feels like it wastes fuel.

I'll have more to say about the Panamera when I have some meaningful driving time in the car, rather than just a test drive.

Panaseeya

My preferred setting is Sport for everyday driving. The handling and the overall feel in that mode is just about perfect for me. The slight downshift lag is my only issue but I can handle that manually. Sport+ is too much for regular driving but it's great on tight curvy mountain roads.

I only use regular mode when I'm on the freeway and want 7th gear -- if I remember to change from Sport mode. I often don't.

GVA-SFO

@gus_smedstad : Trying to explain some more. For me, with PDK, you have the choice over 3 modes (normal, sport and sport plus).
In my driving times, I have a lot more than 3 modes. More important, my personal driving mode do change over the time, and this back and forth, not only according to my mood, but also according to the traffic, the type of road, the climat, etc.. So, I feel that I have to adapt to the machine, this, while I'm driving a manual car, the machine do adapt and follow my mood.
So, if none of the 3 modes respond/match my current demand, the only solution is to go to manual, ..and (again to my personal opinion) then, I face the most innapropriate (to stay extremely polite) way to command a shift, i.e.: the steering wheel clickers are awful, and the central lever works in the opposite direction of any race car, so NO WAY to touch it, to keep the automatisms.
To me, Porsche did all wrong, and this, the worse as possible for the the manual shifting.
Just awful.

Now, this been said, beside the gearbox problem as I perceive it, the Panamera is one of the the best car I have driven. With a manual gearbox, I would give it a full 5 stars.

Gus_Smedstad

Have you considered getting the Techart paddle shifters for your car? You get "proper" paddles without losing the multi-function wheel. They're pricey, the prices I've seen online are $900 and I don't know what installation will cost, but it sounds like the controls are significantly impairing your enjoyment of the car.

I plan to experiment. I'm OK with learning the "wrong" way to shift, since I've never used paddles before. Similarly, I don't plan on driving any race cars, just this one, and so that the push-up / pull-down is reversed doesn't concern me. I figure learning or unlearning this is a lot less work than it was to learn how to drive manual with a foot clutch, and that quickly became instinctive.