cmnt

I have a 2012 Panamera 4 with the 18" wheels. The 18 inch wheels came standard on all but the Turbo version for that year. The P4 is my daily driver and unfortunately the streets i drive on are beat. And as you know, the different sidewall height makes a huge difference on bad roads. Anyway, OEM tires are the summer Contis. Great tires. However, as you know summer tires, per the manufacturer and Porsche, should not be used in sustained cold temperatures below about 45 degrees F, even if dry and definitely not in snow.
So I decided to look for all-seasons. I considered winter tires, but those cannot be driven in the summer because of the specialized winter compound, and I did not want to swap my tires back and forth. Well guess what? Porsche has decided to make an affirmative effort to NOT supply all seasons for just the 18 inch wheels. That's right, while Porsche "worked with" Michelin and others to make all-seasons for the 19 and 20 inch wheels (and I quote from Michelin's advertising: The Pilot Sport A/S Plus N-Spec is Michelin's High Performance All-Season tire developed in conjunction with Porsche for Panamera, Panamera 4, Panamera S, Panamera 4S, and even Panamera Turbo models as an optional all-season tire offering. Pilot Sport A/S Plus N-Spec tires are designed to combine comfort, handling and all-season traction, even in light snow. ), Porsche made sure that neither Michelin nor the other manufactures would make an all-season available for 18 inch wheels.
Sounds crazy right? I called Porsche and went through what I will call "a process" to end up with a nice lady telling me to pound sand. Basically, Porsche refused to pick up the phone, and make a call, just like they did regarding the 19 and 20 wheels, and ask a manufacturer to supply all-seasons.

Which makes a big deal right. Because if all you have are summer tires and pure winter tires to chose from, then either you park it in the summer (or winter), or you have to swap out your tires twice a year. That is the sort of information a buyer would want to know before making the purchase. Right?

So I turn to this forum in the hope that someone knows someone who can help. For a company that is suppose to be about true drivers and drivers cars, to intentionally place its customers in this position when a simple single phone call could fix it, is, well, insane. (not to mention borderline deceptive at the point of sale). So please, any names, phone numbers, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

pmichaelis

My question is why did you buy a performance car and want to put compromised "all-season" tires on it? Pick up a set of 18" takeoffs, properly equip your car with winter snows and change over with the seasons........no big deal.

cmnt

pmichaelis,
Thanks for you input. Neither I, nor Porsche view all-seasons as a compromise. As you can see if you bother to check out Porsche's website, all-seasons are actually offered as a factory option when ordering a Panamera with 19 or 20" wheels. Unless you operate your vehicle on public roadways in a completely irresponsible manner, modern all-seasons, especially after you lock down the suspension in sport mode, will let you run your Panamera as fast as you want to---unless you drive like a fool. And I am not suggesting you do.
As for swapping wheels twice a year, the reason Porsche offers all-seasons is so its buyers do not have to do this. Porsche recognizes that its customers want these tires, which is why they worked with Michelin to make some. So back to the question, why INTENTIONALLY exclude the 18 inch wheels.

cole328

If for nothing else, 18" wheels on a Panamera look retarded (IMHO)

cmnt

Cole328
I was hoping for some help with my tire issue, but since you decided to share. Personally, but for the roads I drive on, I preferred the 19". I think the 20" make the car look at little bit on the pimped out side ---the giant wheel and the resulting exposure of the rotors and brake caliper just overwhelms the side view of the car. As for the 18", I have come to really like the sort of beefy/tough look they give the car. But that just goes to show you, car color, wheels, goofy leather interior packages---all in the eye of the beholder. But thanks again for sharing, and if anyone has any thoughts on my actual post, please .........

dasams

I have no idea why Porsche did this but f I were in your position, I would not feel compelled to buy N rated tires. Dave

cmnt

dasams,

Thanks for the on subject reply. Believe me, I would willing buy a set of all-seasons without the 'N" rating (for those of you who do not know, the N is added to the identifying tire code by tire manufacturers at Porsche's request to symbolize Porsche's approval of the tire), if a set could be had. There is literally not a staggered set with the speed and rolling diameter ratings that I need to be had anywhere.

So, I ask again, if anyone knows anyone at Porsche call them and ask, "why, if you worked with Michelin to make all-seasons for the 19 and 20" wheels did you intentionally exclude the 18" which come standard on most Panamera models?"

Been at this a year. If I had not lived it, I would not believe a company like Porsche would do this to its customers.

neuneleven

You are asking for "help" while passing judgement "insane...borderline deceptive..." and being in possession of knowledge that "Porsche has decided to make an affirmative effort to NOT supply all seasons for [U]just the 18 inch wheels". Do you truly expect to find the answer on the forum or are you venting? - both of which may be deemed appropriate, as this is a forum. I very strongly doubt you will find the real answer on this forum. If I recall your post, suggestions were requested. I humbly suggest finding out from Porsche. Please be kind and share results when you obtain them.

cmnt

duplicate

cmnt

Welcome nueneleven,

I was wondering when someone who worked for Porsche would join the party. And to answer your questions in no particular order:

1. Yes. I am looking for help. If you would have read my post you would have noted that I contacted Porsche already. Made them aware of their omission and they flat out, albeit politely, told me that they had no intention of asking any manufacturer to produce all seasons for the 18" wheels e.g. pound sand.

2. Yes, I can only assume it was intentional. Again, look at my post and the quote, (you can find the source of my quote on TireRack if you want). Porsche went to Michelin and worked with them to produce an all-season for the 19 and 20" wheels, but what, they forgot that most of the Panamera's come standard with 18" wheels. Is that what you are suggesting? The ol' Porsche tire team got back to headquarters after their visit with Michelin, looked at each other and said "oh, ****", "did we forget to tell Michelin about the 18" wheels? Think we should call them and have them add them to the request?" Answer---"no, screw those customers" Really nueneleven? And pigs fly.

3. Yes. Borderline deceptive. You see I think that a company when it sells something, especially at this price point, should bring to its customers attention any and all information it thinks the customer would find material to their purchasing decision. Not only is this good customer relations, it also may be a legal requirement depending upon the subject matter. So, maybe you do not think the sales people should tell buyers that uniquely, owners of Porsches with 18" wheels (standard equipment), will forever have to swap out their tires twice a year (but not if you buy 19 or 20' wheels); but I do and I think a lot of buyers would probably agree.

4. No, I am not just venting, just out of ideas. My hope is that someone who knows someone, or even someone at Porsche is made aware of this post, sees the inequity (not to mention bad customer relations) in all this, and does something.


So nueneleven, if you do work for Porsche, dig in, roll up your sleeves, make a few calls and see for yourself if what I am saying is true. Otherwise, move away from the keyboard and/or at least have the courtesy to read my posts before you respond. Cheers

brad@tirerack.com

We sympathize with you. I carry 20 brands, and of them I don't have a single all season model available in both of the 18" sizes the car takes. I took the time to also research possible alternative sizing for both axles that may be available and came up empty handed. There just isn't an all-season 18" option for this car - at least in the brands we carry. Sorry. You may want to try and center your search to Nitto, Toyo, or Falken. They are brands we don't have heavy offerings in and are still of decent quality.

I wish I could be of more help.

cmnt

Thanks Damon for trying.

If TireRack has any sway with the manufacturers, how about a call to Michelin to see what is going on? Why has it decided not to supply an obvious market when it has the basic tire design ready to go (e.g. the 19 and 20" versions? ) I know you guys have better things to do, but if you can do something great. Thanks again either way.

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen. TireRack itself proves I am not making this up. Not a set of all-weathers to be found on the planet which work on my car. (which I knew because I have been looking for a year --- but thanks to TR still)

And to think, this could all be solved with a phone call lasting all of three minutes. Say what? A year spent on this problem means that I have actually learned a few things about tire manufacturing. So I know for a fact that because Michelin already has the correct tire compound, tread pattern and speed rating available for the Panamera, it can easily squeeze out an 18' version of these tires. It goes like this, Porsche picks up the phone (Michelin always answers their calls) and says, "you know those all-seasons you are making in 19 and 20 inch versions, how about some 18s. Michelin, says yes sir, because what tire manufacturer does not want to able to brag that it supplies Porsche" A 3 minute call, max.

But here we sit, all us 18" wheel owners without a single all-season option on the planet; twice a year, on and off, every year and Porsche just flips us the bird. Nice

So....power to the people. This could be you and your Porsche with some equally bizarre circumstance. You can forward this string to your Porsche clubs, dealer or whomever. Put this forum to work, make a wave or two with Porsche, and if we can fix this your Porsche karma will be forever golden.

BoxsterG

Your option for the 18's is simply to have 2 sets of wheels. A set for summer and a set for winter.
The other option is the one I PM'ed you on.

Good luck!

pmichaelis

I personally can tell you that they are a compromise, they are neither fish nor foul when it comes to snow performance or stopping ability on hot dry roads. If you choose to give up outstanding tire performance for the convenience of not changing wheels, that's your choice to make.

disden

Here's how I deal with this problem: Cayenne Diesel for winter and bad weather; Panamera GTS for summer and good weather. I did however buy a set of winter wheels/tires for the GTS, good for light snow and ice. But I would be kidding myself thinking I could get to work in heavy snow in my panamera. I live out in country, roads just don't get plowed very often.