mc_renn

Hey Guys - I know it's not Porsche related but I had to share my experience here regarding Rover Classic in Staten Island, NY. They also do business under Saab Classic and VSB Enterprises. I never got scammed in all of my years buying a car until yesterday!

I was looking to purchase a 1989 Range Rover County with them that I saw on ebay. After inquiring on the vehicle and speaking with Mike I agreed to purchase the vehicle for a total out the door price of $12,700. This included shipping to Texas.

I then asked him to send me an invoice and he replied, very rudely, saying he won't send an invoice unless I send him a $500 deposit. I was surprised at his response and felt he was being rude but at that time nothing more. So, I spoke with him just to confirm the condition of the vehicle and the price and afterwards I sent him the deposit.

After sending him the deposit he sends me an invoice for a HIGHER amount. I said this is different than the amount we agreed on - he suggested that these are all dealer fees that are listed on his website. I told him we had agreed upon an out the door price - of course he disagrees. This made me uncomfortable and also made me question the car itself which he claims was in great shape. So I asked him to refund my deposit and that we no longer have a deal since he changed the price on me. He refused. This all happens in a span of 10 hours and he said his policy is to never refund a deposit even after 1 second of receiving it. Now I know why he wanted me to send him the deposit before he would send me the invoice. I called him asking to refund my deposit and he called me a "dick".

I have bought a lot of cars sight unseen and always had a very good experience except this one so wanted to let everyone know about this so no one else loses money to this guy.

Also please check their BBB rating - it is a C--

http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/bus...land-ny-136368

rrcny

I guess if Phil Han is talking about me ( roverclassic ) so I should respond.

We never agreed on the final price, my message to him was 12000 for the car and 700 for the delivery. Han was sent to the site if he wanted to complete the sale.

My website clearly lists document fee that will be added to EACH car that is sold. Han read the terms of sale and agreed to them before making the deposit. I do not scam people, everything is right there in very simple terms.

tcsracing1

Documentation fee is the biggest money grab going. Every dealer indeed charges it however. I know, as I am a dealer... So no ground breaking news here.

If you agreed on a price sight unseen you should honor it or you should have let him know there is a documentation fee on top of it in your message or verbally during the offer. Obviously, like all dealers this isnt the first time you have had a customer question the documentation fee which is all the more reason to mention it. This of course is why you have it posted on your website (in fine print during checkout im sure). Because it is that important to you and you understand the problem it causes to buyers who learn about it at the last minute.

As much as it was a misunderstanding, it could have been avoided had you at least emailed him a copy of the invoice first. The whole cookie cutter $500.00 deposit via paypal and read the fine print is a little much when selling used cars. typically given the vintage, buyers will want to talk to a person and do a deal as opposed to an amazon.com type set up...

Not everybody always reads the writing on the website, as it is not law to read it and there is no signature stating the buyer accepts those terms of deposit and sale....it is up to the dealer to disclose the fee to the consumer during negotiation of price, especially if out of state.
The fee varies throughout states and areas. Some have no rhyme or reason which is why doc fees have a bad name.

You sell cars all the time, but a typical buyer is ignorant to the system because they only buy a few cars in their lifetime. Pass on your knowledge and experience to the uninformed buyer in a good way...
Not trying to say you are running a doc fee scam. It is just that typical buyers overlook it.

Personally, If i had a 89 Rover on my lot and sombody offered my 12k, id tear their arm off for the cash and could care less about the doc fee as it would be a timebomb off my lot...

Id eat the doc fee and dump the rover before the battery goes or the tires begin to leak. The sooner it is gone with no check engine light the better the happier id be...

to the OP, Realistically, the money you lost on the deposit was money saved on not buying a 89 rover and having to service it later..

That being said i own two land rover vehicles....

mc_renn

The agreement was an out the door price of $12,700. I bought several cars in my life and I'm pretty sure that means the total price of the vehicle. He changed the price of the vehicle after I sent him the deposit. I never had a dealer refusing to send me an invoice prior to me sending the deposit. I should have went with my gut and not done the deal when he refused.

mc_renn

Why on earth would I send you a deposit if we did not agree on a price? I'm sure you are not going to answer this question or respond to any of my other questions.

mc_renn

Personally, If i had a 89 Rover on my lot and sombody offered my 12k, id tear their arm off for the cash and could care less about the doc fee as it would be a timebomb off my lot...

Id eat the doc fee and dump the rover before the battery goes or the tires begin to leak. The sooner it is gone with no check engine light the better the happier id be...

to the OP, Realistically, the money you lost on the deposit was money saved on not buying a 89 rover and having to service it later..

That being said i own two land rover vehicles....[/QUOTE]

LOL yeah they are time bombs but i love them as well!

Jbarnes RS

Regardless you can't keep the deposit.

In Oregon deposits are 100% refundable.

I would sue the guy in small claims. He won't win.

You must be an idiot to tarnish your reputation over $500.

In this day and age your only as good as your yelp/ e bay / Google review on line.

Due what is right and refund his $500.

tcsracing1

His whole web business model is based on $500.00 deposit via paypal for vehicles sight unseen. Like buying a book on amazon.com....

He is essentially expecting buyers to travel to him in hopes somebody else dosnt already have a deposit on the vehicle by the time they arrive.... And if a buyer wants to hold the vehicle for inspection before the arrive to make the trip worthwhile they are strong armed into giving a deposit that is non refundable....

He must know something that Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge do not...

tcsracing1

if you payed through paypal, contact paypal.

mc_renn

I just found this out and thought it would be useful info to share with you guys. If you use paypal and the deal involves the purchase of an automobile Paypal will not investigate in response to a dispute. They will automatically close the case and side with the seller. Lucky for me I used a credit card linked to my PayPal account and they have started an investigation on my behalf.

LexVan

Smart. One to drive, while the other's in the shop.

equ

Good luck in dealing with the credit card company.

And SHAME ON YOU, dealership, you're fluffing up fees and not honoring the deal (or at least not being clear/misleading) at least refund the guy's deposit!

Unfortunately, in this NYC-area that I live in, decent auto dealers are few and far in between. Especially 3rd party ones.

Please give them the Yelp and Google reviews they deserve.

depstein15

Totally agree, I live in NYC too, this is the most concentrated area of scammers in the United States

Dino V

Enough said when a dealer or any business will ruin the customer experience for $500 profit. I've had dealers eat even more than that to make a customer happy. Hope you get your money back from this dishonest dealer. The internet is wonderful at making sure this never happens again and expose these terrible dealers.

Para82

I would be on the first flight to New York but that's just me. Disgusting practice, hope you get it resolved.