Gonna get a Chevy Volt, wish me luck.
11-27-2011, 07:17 PM
#76
Cottage Industry Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
HHTSA Findings regarding the Volt Battery Fires:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/26/n...ation-details/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/26/n...ation-details/
12-03-2011, 03:30 PM
#77
Not an Addict?
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Chevy is now offering to buy these things back:
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-crash-fires/1
Then there's the article from Business Week saying they are not doing so well:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ow-growth.html
I guess getting that high mileage for 40K+ has some drawbacks!!!
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-crash-fires/1
Then there's the article from Business Week saying they are not doing so well:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ow-growth.html
I guess getting that high mileage for 40K+ has some drawbacks!!!
12-08-2011, 06:15 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
I couldn't help but notice this thread -- very cool to see it on our beloved P-car forum. Edit: I didn't realize this was so long. Terribly sorry -- feel free to skip over it; it's just rambling anyway.
I actually was a consultant on the Chevy Volt (and other alternative-energy programs at GM) a couple of years ago. We focused primarily on powertrain engineering and system dynamics. First, let me make my personal thoughts very clear:
1) I, by-and-large, find all hybrids to be absolute crap for the money. I've got thousands of hours under my belt in researching hybrids, alternative fuels, and battery chemistries -- Li-ion in particular -- and I can firmly say that when you look at the economics of purchasing (or even manufacturing) hybrids or other alternative-fueled vehicles, it doesn't make a lick of sense. I love researching this stuff, especially technical cost analyses. I even went so far as to receive my masters from MIT in materials engineering, with a focus on metallurgy and alternative fuels -- this is one of my passions!
2) However, this is not the full extent of the story. The fact is, the automotive industry is in a period of transition, and will be for the next ten years. Even though the hybrids are overpriced, more cheaply made, and provide marginally better fuel economy than many gasoline- or diesel-powered counterparts, these cars are necessary for the survival of the automotive industry. This technology is in its infant stages.
Don't worry -- a suitable replacement to gasoline (i.e., safe, readily-accessible, and cost-neutral) will emerge. I'm not sure if the answer will ultimately be batteries, and if it is, you can be sure it will be a different cell chemistry than what is currently available. Heck, fuel cells are getting attention, too (they also have an Achilles Heel, but that's for another discussion).
Nevertheless, these vehicles -- replete with the very unfortunate tax credits -- are necessary for the auto industry to survive.
Anyway, I'm sorry for the rant. The main point of my post was to state that I fully stand behind the Volt. If I was going to buy a car in that class, the Volt would be my choice. First, and perhaps most importantly, because it is American-made and does hybrids in an "Extended Range" format -- the way they should have been done from the get-go. The OP and I actually share the same rationale for choosing a Volt over the competition, and I swear it's not because of nepotism on my end! It's cool to have contributed to such a good car.
The big question mark with the Volt -- and anything else that uses Li-ion cell chemistry -- will be its battery pack. GM is actually not turning a profit on this vehicle, and in the early stages of production, the battery pack accounted for half of the cost of the manufacturing. Unfortunately, it's not a fair comparison to assume that because the Prius attained 300k miles on the battery pack, the Volt will, too. The Volt uses Li-ion, while the Prius used NiMH. It's like apples-to-oranges.
Expect the Li-ion to be less reliable. It's the price you pay for performance. As an example, Tesla expects their battery pack to be usable for 7yr/100kMI -- and even that is a lofty goal. Think of your laptop: the Tesla Roadster uses identical batteries; when have you ever heard of a laptop battery lasting 7 years after constant use? To be fair: GM actually charges the Volt differently than Tesla does, thereby extending the battery pack lifespan significantly. I wouldn't be surprised if 150kMI is attainable, but 300k is a bit of a lofty goal.
Finally, I actually really like the shape. The build quality is excellent (unfortunately I can't comment on how long the interior will hold up -- not my department!) and the exterior styling is the best of the bunch. It's not "cute" like the rest of 'em. At least, not as much?
I actually was a consultant on the Chevy Volt (and other alternative-energy programs at GM) a couple of years ago. We focused primarily on powertrain engineering and system dynamics. First, let me make my personal thoughts very clear:
1) I, by-and-large, find all hybrids to be absolute crap for the money. I've got thousands of hours under my belt in researching hybrids, alternative fuels, and battery chemistries -- Li-ion in particular -- and I can firmly say that when you look at the economics of purchasing (or even manufacturing) hybrids or other alternative-fueled vehicles, it doesn't make a lick of sense. I love researching this stuff, especially technical cost analyses. I even went so far as to receive my masters from MIT in materials engineering, with a focus on metallurgy and alternative fuels -- this is one of my passions!
2) However, this is not the full extent of the story. The fact is, the automotive industry is in a period of transition, and will be for the next ten years. Even though the hybrids are overpriced, more cheaply made, and provide marginally better fuel economy than many gasoline- or diesel-powered counterparts, these cars are necessary for the survival of the automotive industry. This technology is in its infant stages.
Don't worry -- a suitable replacement to gasoline (i.e., safe, readily-accessible, and cost-neutral) will emerge. I'm not sure if the answer will ultimately be batteries, and if it is, you can be sure it will be a different cell chemistry than what is currently available. Heck, fuel cells are getting attention, too (they also have an Achilles Heel, but that's for another discussion).
Nevertheless, these vehicles -- replete with the very unfortunate tax credits -- are necessary for the auto industry to survive.
Anyway, I'm sorry for the rant. The main point of my post was to state that I fully stand behind the Volt. If I was going to buy a car in that class, the Volt would be my choice. First, and perhaps most importantly, because it is American-made and does hybrids in an "Extended Range" format -- the way they should have been done from the get-go. The OP and I actually share the same rationale for choosing a Volt over the competition, and I swear it's not because of nepotism on my end! It's cool to have contributed to such a good car.
The big question mark with the Volt -- and anything else that uses Li-ion cell chemistry -- will be its battery pack. GM is actually not turning a profit on this vehicle, and in the early stages of production, the battery pack accounted for half of the cost of the manufacturing. Unfortunately, it's not a fair comparison to assume that because the Prius attained 300k miles on the battery pack, the Volt will, too. The Volt uses Li-ion, while the Prius used NiMH. It's like apples-to-oranges.
Expect the Li-ion to be less reliable. It's the price you pay for performance. As an example, Tesla expects their battery pack to be usable for 7yr/100kMI -- and even that is a lofty goal. Think of your laptop: the Tesla Roadster uses identical batteries; when have you ever heard of a laptop battery lasting 7 years after constant use? To be fair: GM actually charges the Volt differently than Tesla does, thereby extending the battery pack lifespan significantly. I wouldn't be surprised if 150kMI is attainable, but 300k is a bit of a lofty goal.
Finally, I actually really like the shape. The build quality is excellent (unfortunately I can't comment on how long the interior will hold up -- not my department!) and the exterior styling is the best of the bunch. It's not "cute" like the rest of 'em. At least, not as much?
12-10-2011, 03:56 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
I'm with Dariof.
The diesel is the way to go. If you can wait for several months, I would opt for the Chevy Cruze diesel. Then if you really want to capitalize on it, you can make your own biodiesel if you want. Like I do. I also have a surplus I sell out of my garage hooking other diesel enthusiasts up.
Dariof. I'm in Vegas too. Next time you need a fill up, you're welcome to call me. Joe
The diesel is the way to go. If you can wait for several months, I would opt for the Chevy Cruze diesel. Then if you really want to capitalize on it, you can make your own biodiesel if you want. Like I do. I also have a surplus I sell out of my garage hooking other diesel enthusiasts up.
Dariof. I'm in Vegas too. Next time you need a fill up, you're welcome to call me. Joe
10-06-2012, 12:06 AM
#80
Cottage Industry Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I have seen replacement batteries for the Volt advertised at $3k by GM parts suppliers. How can they become that cheap, if they originally accounted for half the manufacturing cost?
03-30-2015, 01:39 AM
#81
Addict
