Mysterious damage to my OEM GT4 wheel .. any thoughts ?! [New Video uploaded]
#32
Rennlist Member
Interesting theory, and could explain the uniform spacing of the barrel dents, but wouldn't that only be an issue if you hit the gators going the opposite direction? Gators are layered in such a way that the tire falls off of each successive one, stepping down to the next. Only if you were running the opposite direction would you hit the sharp edge/step-up of each gator curbing.
#33
At cota with low tires it would be plausible to have this happen on 20" wheels not designed for track abuse (under 30psi is too low on a 20" tire on a circuit at full anger, this is not an autocross event). You don't have to the guy being "bad", in fact the driver who is being conservative and not completely going over the curbing/riding on the edge might be more susceptible to it. Easy way to check is to measure the arc between the deformation centers and the measure the distance between gator teeth. If they match, then you have your smoking gun.
#34
Race Car
Is the strangest thing I've ever seen. There's no way in hell an impact could've caused it . You need to dismount the tire and see what's going on? Looks almost like its buckling . Please update your post once you find out. Carl
#35
Advanced
Thread Starter
That is completely insane. I've never seen anything like it. Is there any bending on the inner side of the wheel lips where it meets the sidewall?
The center portion of the barrel has no physical contact with anything except air. When you hit something hard, the first thing to go would either be the tire sidewall or the lip of the wheel where the compression forces are the greatest.
Having just the barrel portion deform like that would tell me either a manufacturing defect or you were driving around with zero air pressure and hitting every curb for miles. And we know the second thing isn't possible!
If I was Porsche you would have a new wheel the next day while I get the engineers to examine that wheel with a fine tooth comb.
The center portion of the barrel has no physical contact with anything except air. When you hit something hard, the first thing to go would either be the tire sidewall or the lip of the wheel where the compression forces are the greatest.
Having just the barrel portion deform like that would tell me either a manufacturing defect or you were driving around with zero air pressure and hitting every curb for miles. And we know the second thing isn't possible!
If I was Porsche you would have a new wheel the next day while I get the engineers to examine that wheel with a fine tooth comb.
Video link
Last edited by ASM_GT4; 03-21-2017 at 05:30 PM.
#37
My guess: it is not from gators on the race track - the outer rim would have experience the same impressions or deformation. Its somehow from the load on the wheel while being pried (pulling force). The wheel is mounted to the hub and rotor and if you look, you'll notice that the bumps or humps are nearly in-line with each spoke. It is as if somehow the center of wheel was twisted or pulled and the amount of energy caused the warping to happen. In one of your pictures you see the spoke near the barrel is bent, as if that bending motion pulled up the inner barrel because that is where the wheel is connected. Does that makes sense?
#38
Advanced
Thread Starter
My guess: it is not from gators on the race track - the outer rim would have experience the same impressions or deformation. Its somehow from the load on the wheel while being pried (pulling force). The wheel is mounted to the hub and rotor and if you look, you'll notice that the bumps or humps are nearly in-line with each spoke. It is as if somehow the center of wheel was twisted or pulled and the amount of energy caused the warping to happen. In one of your pictures you see the spoke near the barrel is bent, as if that bending motion pulled up the inner barrel because that is where the wheel is connected. Does that makes sense?
Appreciate your ineresting input, but let me clarify some points and try underatand the given facts. The angle of the photo may be misleading .. below are some helpful points:
• The spokes are fine and perfect.
• the bumps are not inlined with the spokes.
• the bumps are symmetrical and equally spaced.
• I am using Pirelli Trofeo R .. which is far less sticky from full slicks which are not able to cause that deformation.
#39
Rennlist Member
Is it possible you only noticed one of the bends before the track, and that all eight were there from the factory?
Looks like something was done to the wheel before the tire was put on, and may be able to better determine this once you get the tire off and inspect it for marks.
Looks like something was done to the wheel before the tire was put on, and may be able to better determine this once you get the tire off and inspect it for marks.
#40
Advanced
Thread Starter
Is it possible you only noticed one of the bends before the track, and that all eight were there from the factory?
Looks like something was done to the wheel before the tire was put on, and may be able to better determine this once you get the tire off and inspect it for marks.
Looks like something was done to the wheel before the tire was put on, and may be able to better determine this once you get the tire off and inspect it for marks.
Hmmm .. I think this is not the reason .. the people who installed my pirelli tires were PORSCHE Center of Bahrain .. amd if their procesure was wrong, the other 3 wheels might have been damaged as well ... add on that, wheel had only one bend initially .. but the additional 7 bends came later and surprisingly following the same pattern !!
#41
Measure the gators
Can't tell from your video, but I am guessing that there was a time you were accelerating hard or braking with the middle of the tire on the edge of the strip of gators (most likely), or you were laterally loaded while on the gators (since this is usually the apex, you are typically unloaded on this side).
The reason the rim edge is not damaged is because the sidewall is stiffer than the empty space (too low pressure) at the center of the tire.
Can't tell from your video, but I am guessing that there was a time you were accelerating hard or braking with the middle of the tire on the edge of the strip of gators (most likely), or you were laterally loaded while on the gators (since this is usually the apex, you are typically unloaded on this side).
The reason the rim edge is not damaged is because the sidewall is stiffer than the empty space (too low pressure) at the center of the tire.
Last edited by ShakeNBake; 03-22-2017 at 12:16 AM.
#43
Advanced
Thread Starter
Measure the gators
Can't tell from your video, but I am guessing that there was a time you were accelerating hard or braking with the middle of the tire on the edge of the strip of gators (most likely), or you were laterally loaded while on the gators (since this is usually the apex, you are typically unloaded on this side).
The reason the rim edge is not damaged is because the sidewall is stiffer than the empty space (too low pressure) at the center of the tire.
Can't tell from your video, but I am guessing that there was a time you were accelerating hard or braking with the middle of the tire on the edge of the strip of gators (most likely), or you were laterally loaded while on the gators (since this is usually the apex, you are typically unloaded on this side).
The reason the rim edge is not damaged is because the sidewall is stiffer than the empty space (too low pressure) at the center of the tire.
Allow me to evaluate the Gator theory below:
In common sense, Gator can cause a damage to the wheels in specific circumstances. but my humble opinion, this is not my case, due to the following points:
• there was a single bend, recorded in PORSCHE center of Bahrain. that bend is the key element of the next point.
• at GULF RUN event, a new 7 bends found making a total of 8 uniform bends. and the key word here is "Uniform".
• Now, lets talk science, if we gonna evaluate the "Probability" of (Gator theory) .. it will be nearly impossible. why ? because having 7 bends from a specific Gator incident to be aligned with the first single bend and then causing this Uniform Montblanc logo is impossible to my logic. add on that, if the bends were Randomly distributed, I would not escalate the subject because Gator theory then could be possible. and that what I have actually believed when it was only 1 bend.
This is my humble logic. what do you think ?
Last edited by ASM_GT4; 03-22-2017 at 03:09 AM.
#44
My Money is on the material/construction defect......the lack of damage on other wheels/edges and perfect symmetry points to this.
#45
Rennlist Member
Let's do some math. Let’s find the linear distance between dimples and compare to the track to test the theory that curbing might have caused it.
There are 8 dimples. 360/8 = 45 degrees between each dimple. We need to know the approximate diameter of the tape. I know this is a 20” wheel, but not sure if inside or outside is 20”. Anyway, let’s assume diameter D = 20”. The circumference of the taped line is pi*D = 3.14*20 = 62.8 inches = 159.5 cm. Now divide the circumference by the number of dimples which gives 7.85 in = 20 cm.
The $64,000 question is…is the curbing spaced at about 8 inches or 20 cm?
ASM_GT4: if you can measure the inside diameter of the wheel we can get a better estimate (I assumed 20 inches).
Someone check my numbers.
Went and looked for curb dimensions...here's a version of FIA curbing...don't think it will match. Distance between curb peaks looks fairly large.
There are 8 dimples. 360/8 = 45 degrees between each dimple. We need to know the approximate diameter of the tape. I know this is a 20” wheel, but not sure if inside or outside is 20”. Anyway, let’s assume diameter D = 20”. The circumference of the taped line is pi*D = 3.14*20 = 62.8 inches = 159.5 cm. Now divide the circumference by the number of dimples which gives 7.85 in = 20 cm.
The $64,000 question is…is the curbing spaced at about 8 inches or 20 cm?
ASM_GT4: if you can measure the inside diameter of the wheel we can get a better estimate (I assumed 20 inches).
Someone check my numbers.
Went and looked for curb dimensions...here's a version of FIA curbing...don't think it will match. Distance between curb peaks looks fairly large.
Last edited by aryork; 03-22-2017 at 09:58 AM. Reason: added curb image