MarcD147

I see some people increase wing and I wonder why (besides the "its cool to say that you changed the wing and got more downforce")

I argue it doesn't make a difference besides maybe slowing you down....

of course to keep the car balanced Increased rear win angle means also removed front aero dams

a reasonably scientific explanation:

what is the increased downforce when changing the wing angle?
how many more Gs can you carry at what speed (in the video they talk about 0.01G extra at 120mph by adding aero to wrx (I argue that adding aero to wrx is same as wing angle change on gt4)

where/when would this minimal aero change help?
the kink at Daytona?

btw real race cars can adjust more aero than we can on a gt4 and have stickier tires to back it up etc so I would like the discussion focused on what we can do with the GT4 and the stock adjustable wing angle

mrd_spy

the few I have seen do it have got more understeer on track.

So I'll give it a miss and take the extra 1 mph down the straight lol

Bill Lehman

I added a Getty RS type wing to my 987.1 two years ago. My favorite track, which I normally run at least 3 times a year, is Watkins Glen which has several relatively high speed corners. The only change was aero and my lap times were slightly reduced but my comfort level up through the esses improved. I have been running data for 5 years and noticed that with the wing I was losing 2-3 mph at the end of the long straights. I drilled additional holes in the wing mount to allow a 0 angle of attack and used this position on most tracks. Because air flow tends to follow down the back of the roof and rear window, you still get some down force with a 0 angle. I'm waiting for my GT4 and will use data to test wing angle but expect I will run the wing in its flattest position with the exception of WGI.

ny991

Bill, I'd like to see how the data comes in. I'll be at the glen with Chin in May.

I know what you mean by comfort level in t3 and t4.

Thanks

4carl

I played with the wing @ the streets with it up cost about 2-3mph at the end of the back straight. Couldn't tell any difference in grip. Front areo max. carl

Ochocoronas

I turned mine around backwards. It preformed much better backing out of the driveway but seemed to have a lot of over steer going forward
I would think one would have to be constantly over 125 MPH to really tell a difference " tried to watch that guy make sausage but it was to painful " in the wing angle.. I think the biggest difference comes from pulling the front air damns.

Beantown Kman

Aero most definitely makes a difference in grip in high speed corners and in reducing braking distances from very high speeds. Both are discernible and measurable. It also inspires considerable confidence in "oh s--t" sections of the track such as the esses at Watkins Glen and the climbing esses at VIR.

I ran a full season in my Cayman R (25 track days) before I put a Getty rear wing and a Bodymotion front splitter on my car. With the aero package my lap times at Watkins Glen and VIR dropped by more than 2 seconds. Considering the increased HP in the GT4 over my Cayman R I wouldn't hesitate to run with the more aggressive aero setup on the GT4. The drag is a non-issue relative to the increase in grip.

gmaki

I remember in 1988 when I bought my very first new car. A 1997 Mustang LX 5.0. At the time it was just a ridiculously fast car. After I broke it in I took it up to my hometown and my brother and I decided to see if it could actually achieve it's claimed 147 mph top speed, and we had just the place to do it. Hanning Flat.




Long story short we got there. But I did notice as we approached 140 the steering got lighter, and at 147 it almost felt like the front wheels were nearly off the ground.

So even though I only get up in to those ranges every once in awhile (several years later I hit around 145 on Big Willow) I would much rather have the car generating downforce than the opposite. If it is true, and I believe it is, that aero makes almost no difference at lower speed then why not have it set to be the safest it can be at very high speeds?

MarcD147

adding a wing yes; I can buy that.... but changing the existing GT4 wing 2-3 degrees is where I struggle to believe that....

At Daytona, while breaking breaking from 157 to 50 into turn 1, I didn't feel instability under high speed breaking with my GT4 with the wing in factory position....

katmeho

One thing to consider is that Porsche ha states that the aero adjustments are to be done together, both front and back. So if you are pulling the front dams to get a little more downforce out of the front aero then you want the extra angle on the rear to return the overall car aero to spec. That's my reason for making the change.

I did an A/B test at Laguna and I can report that I thought I felt more stable full tilt through T1 with the extra angle in the rear wing.

In the end, it's the sum of all adjustments (bars, wing, alignment) that make up that feelinng, but it's my observation.

MarcD147

let me say it differently...


if you wouldn't know what the setting was and you would do back to back runs with the wing in different positions but unknown to you which run had which position.

I bet you (not someone in specific here; just us drivers) could not tell which run had the wing in what position.

matttheboatman

Marc, I for one can say it does not "feel" much different, particularly on the street - zero difference. So I've left it in max aero mode - just to know that I'm getting max grip during high speed turns. Scientifically, no clue of the net net difference.

Bill Lehman

Here's a screen shot of my data from Watkins Glen. The Blue trace is with aero and the Orange trace is without aero. Note that the Orange trace has the fastest speed at the end of the straight. Blue is faster through the esses and the outer loop. Also look at Lat G.

MarcD147

^ pretty cool data Bill !!

as I understand it this is a trace without and a trace with wing. so huge aero difference setup wise and yes there is a measurable difference in in the trace. G, speed etc

have you played around with wing angle to see how that impacts things? (I am trying to figure out if the 3 degrees of extra win on the GT4 has a measurable impact)


I wonder if the confidence inspiring that some have eluded to in fast corners /esses is pseudo or real

fishing

If it makes more drag, slowing down acceleration and top speed on the straight, then it may not benefit the overall lap time.