RocketGuy3

Who needs airbags? Learn to drive!


Why do you hate it? I have to assume stubborn old fogies like you are the reason this car is so antiquated in terms of luxury feature set. ;-)

Da Hapa

Perhaps it's because my sports cars are third cars but I can not ever remember an instance where I have approached my sports car with my arms full of groceries or bags. Ever. And if that were the case wouldn't I need access to the trunk or frunk rather than the doors?

To each his own but again, to me, these are solutions to problems that don't exist.

Da Hapa

My dislike of these systems isn't specific to the GT4... I don't want them on anything. And while I absolutely agree with you that a Corrola is a more likely target for thieves than a GT4 and that this technology hasn't created an epidemic of stolen cars, I maintain that our quick adoptation of these technologies only makes it easy. And for what? Because we find it too taxing to use a key?

I've got a little one at home and as such I always have stuff with me when he's in the car... Thankfully we are past diaper bags... So I'm not naive as to the potential benefits here. But I'm all too familiar with the downside.

As to the Audi cutting out on the freeway... It was absolutely due to an issue with the keyless start. Audi flew folks out from Germany to investigate because they were petrified of how bad this was. Our car lost power for a split second before coming right back but in that very short amount of time we bad no power steering, no power brakes, no lights and no engine power. Thankfully the car threw some kind of code because Audi confirmed we weren't crazy. I was certain I'd get the old "we can't replicate the issue..." Response but Audi quickly saw the issue and went out of their way to address it.

The keyless start in our A6 wagon lets us also use a key rather than the keyless start and we use the actual key exclusively now... Just to be sure.

Da Hapa

See post #28 above.
I have to assume that lazy young whipper snappers like you are the reason why this car has warning stickers all over it and several owners manuals to prevent the foolhardy from killing themselves

RocketGuy3

Touche, heh. As for your thoughts on keyless entry/ignition, whatever floats your boat I suppose, but I can't overstate how much I love not having to ever take my keys out of my pocket when getting into, starting, stopping, or getting out of (and locking) my car. I'm guessing you have never owned a daily driver with that feature and tried to go back to a car without it, but if you have, and you still weren't convinced of the value, then we're at an impasse. Not to mention the fact that keyless entry systems also have the added advantage of making it nearly impossible to lock yourself out of your car.

And as far as security is concerned, it requires a pretty specific set of circumstances before you really become vulnerable... You have to have a relatively well prepared and tech-savvy thief, and you likely have to be parked outside at home, and you leave your keys in a place where someone with a transceiver can reach them wirelessly. And if all of that is an issue, then there are devices you can buy to put your keys in at home and conceal its signal.

As for the Audi, that's unfortunate, but that kind of thing is going to happen from time to time with any technology. People are going to **** up. It has nothing to do with it being keyless or not. Have we already forgotten the GM ignition debacle? ... And those were keyed ignition cars.

There is objectively almost zero downside to keyless entry. If you just get a thrill out of turning a key (kind of like some of us get a thrill out of rowing our own gears), then I can't argue with that, but as far as safety, security, and convenience go, it's definitely an overall win.

rk-d

That's why I said daily.

It's not a deal breaker on a GT4. I would have problem with it on a daily driver.

Da Hapa

Totally fair and appreciate the perspective/position.

Da Hapa

As I noted in post #28 above, the Audi A6 wagon I've mentioned a few times, is, in fact our daily driver. My wife actually appreciated what so many of you do prior to us having a problem with the system. She carries a giant purse and fumbling in her purse to find the keys was a hassle. I get that. I don't carry a purse. I don't really find any benefit to these systems. But that's just me.

BTW - In 27-years of driving dozens of cars in several countries I've never locked myself out of my car.

As I noted above, I agree with jphughan that the chances of random thieves targeting my GT4 over a garden variety Honda Accord are slim. However, I've seen several reports both online and in reputable printed sources (like the WSJ) that indicate that there are rings of thieves who do exactly what you've described. They have been trolling high end neighborhoods with devices which can read signals from keys. They can then use those signals to steal cars. This is maybe 1% of thieves but do I want to be that statistic? Plus, call me paranoid but my cars all have homelink which then makes it that much easier to get in the house where the only things that actually matter to me, my wife and son, are.

So I check an option which doesn't provide any value (to me), with increased cost and complexity, accept some additional risk and/or then buy another device to store my keys? No thanks.

Haven't you just made my point? I don't know anyone who has had their car die at highway speeds and create a dangerous paradigm due to a keyed ignition failing. Statistically speaking it certainly has happened but I've never seen, heard or experienced such a thing. I put far more credence in my own, personal empirical evidence and experience than guesstimates or assumptions.

Respectfully, this is a classic straw man argument. The GM ignition switch example you provide was a known defect which GM continued to install in cars for more than a decade (that's from memory so forgive me if the dates aren't perfect). The company, or some at the company, knew they were creating an unsafe environment and that's not really analgous to the actions, designs, or decisions of moral and ethical individuals or companies. If we can't all start from the base premise that auto manufacturers are making best efforts to provide safe, reliable transportation than we're lost before we start.

In my case, I am certain that Audi was horrified by the failure that we experienced. As I've said, they went above and beyond to take care of us, make us feel comfortable that the car is safe, and went outside of the normal protocol to assuage our concerns. Despite the very best of intentions, solid design, and proper maintenance the technology failed where keyed ignition would not have failed.

I'm no luddite. I appreciate air conditioning, power windows, ABS, variable valve timing, the list goes on and on. But for me, I don't see any benefit to these systems that some of you enjoy. More power to you.

The question was posed above as to why I hate these systems. In fairness, my choice of the word hate was probably too strong but I've provided facts which indicate that this technology isn't as safe and secure as the tried and true key. I agree that there is additional convenience for some. But not for me.

If you're unwilling to concede that your perspective and opinion isn't right for everyone then you're right... we are at an impasse. I can only speak for me and what I'm willing to spend my $ on.

I would have no problem with Porsche offering these options, nor do I have a problem with anyone choosing them for their cars. It's your money, buy what you like. I just don't want them on my cars. I really don't want them on sports cars. And I really, really, really don't want them on Porsche's GT cars.

konaforever

There's a certain old schoolness to having to insert the key to start up the GT4 to go along with the manual. I do find it annoying to have to take the key out of my pocket, and prefer having a start button to start up the car. I've gotten so use to keyless entry and start.

RocketGuy3

Hah, I had a feeling you might say that. Some of us may be less absent-minded than others, but we're all human. One less way for us to screw ourselves is an improvement.



The devices are pretty cheap and simple, but if you really don't find the value in keyless systems, then I guess the point is moot. To me, the convenience of the tech far outweighs any potential security drawbacks.



There is some risk with every new technology. Yes, keyless entry may be an example of new tech, but my point is if you're unwilling to use that because it's new and scary, that rules out pretty much the entire idea of buying any modern car. When it comes down to it, none of this tech (at least the way it's implemented) existed even 20 years ago.



Regardless of whether they knew about it, it was still a mistake that happened. It's not like they intentionally messed up. Audi messed up, too. The point is that any technology is vulnerable, regardless of the intentions and clean-up efforts of the manufacturer behind it.

Even if you can't accept that mistakes will happen with any tech, I'm not sure how that example is a strawman.

(I'm also not sure what makes you so certain that Audi was so concerned about your well being -- these are the same people behind the diesel scandal if you recall. They're as evil as any major corporation out there. All any of them care about is the bottom line.)



When I said we're at an impasse, I wasn't saying I can't accept that people might not like the things I like. I was saying if you really don't see the value in it, then I'm not going to be able to convince you to want this tech even if I "proved" that your concerns weren't a big deal. If you really don't see the advantage of keyless entry (with or without a purse ;-) ), then that's fine. I still strongly believe you're grossly overstating the disadvantage of keyless systems, though. How much value you get out of them is subjective, but objectively, your Audi anecdote aside, there is just not any actual data that proves they're any less safe than keyed ignition cars. And in terms of security, the compromises are minimal at best.

Archimedes

I've been toying with taking a dealer allocation and the only two "cost" options on this car that interest me are the dual zone climate control and (maybe) black wheels. Other than that and the zero cost stuff like the tank and the smoking package, I wouldn't add any other options. Now, if they offered keyless entry, I'd take that too. Best option on a car since power windows. F'ing joke that it doesn't come standard on an $85,000 Porsche.

iyee318

I ordered a gt4 without dual zone climate control and I regret it. It's not that I'm lazy it's just that the manual controls are so bad and slow(click click click). If I specced it again I would get dual climate control for sure.

CAlexio

OK,

after owning my spyder for about a month now, I have to grudgingly admit that i was wrong about the climate control.. I got the manual and I regret it.

everytime I accelerate on the highway with top down, i have to furiously click up both the temp and the fan in order to keep the cabin warm.. when i pull off at the exit it's the same cumbersome process backwards or i roast.

Also, my fiancee' likes it warm, i like it colder.. and we had a little mini-battle over this a few times. the fact that the system lacks a rotary **** which would allow for rapid adjustment, compounds the issue. I was wrong, the manual is terrible, and I wish I had gotten the automatic.

I'm now searching ebay for automatic climate control modules for the 981.. does anyone know if it's a relatively simple replacement?.. i found modules for $400 which I'm considering buying.

jphughan

The Suncoast page for this says that dealer programming is required but also clearly states that it is only sold as a replacement unit for a car that had it from the factory, not an upgrade. You may want to contact them to find out what a retrofit would entail.

TRAKCAR

It should be std.
After GT3 and Macan it looks like crap and you have to fiddle with it.
I now think it's the only must have option along with bucket seats.