ace37

Agreed, I work the same way.

caymannyc

First of all, not sure where the "public school" comment is coming from but like all arguments against private schools it sounds a bit bitter. The reality is, if you live in a major city, public schools are a big risk. There is no safety net, at all. It is sink or swim. The outcomes of kids who attended a great private school vs. a crowded inner city school are stark, and playing the "well I made it" is disingenuous and possibly selfish to the point of negligence for your children (again, I only mean this if your option is an inner-city school in New York, Chicago etc. which have well documented problems). Having attended your stereotypical "Ivy" schools and having lived in places like New York, I can count on 1 finger (well, more like zero) the number of classmates and colleagues who have placed their children into the NYC public school system. The ones that did send their kids to public schools moved out to NJ or CT, but the homes in the good districts cost well over a million and property taxes are very high. Now obviously there are many great public schools out there but I'm not sure any of those areas affords ortho surgery jobs paying as much as OP stated, so I inferred he was going to live somewhere in a major metro area, which tend to have terrible public schools.

And having lived in some of the most expensive cities in the world (London, New York and Hong Kong), I can tell you after taxes (roughly 50% all-in) and high rent and high cost of living, it is extremely difficult to save money to do things like buying a house or paying kids tuition. Let's take $400k, after taxes that's $200k. After renting a "reasonable" (not great) 1 bedroom apartment for $3k/month (bare minimum in Manhattan or SF, can be much more), he's left with $164,000 to live off, which is a great starting point if you're single. If you add loans, a wife and kids (unless the wife is also an orthopedic surgeon!), well, now you start feeling the pinch. Daycare is north of $20K/year per child in Manhattan. Nannies/babysitters are very expensive. Private schools in Manhattan/DC cost between 30K-70K/year per child. College tuition has sky-rocketed in recent years (over $50k/year in tuition for some universities). Then you have to factor in retirement funds, investments, etc. One blessing is as a doctor he's going to pay almost nothing for the best healthcare plan in the world. Again, if inner-city schools weren't so terrible, this wouldn't be a problem, but you need to make a judgment call on providing your kids with the best educational opportunity you can afford (all hypothetical, maybe OP doesn't even plan on having children, who knows).

But besides all that, there is no getting around the reality that unless OP has considerable savings, spending $200k on a car is going to be a significant financial outlay which may take him years of work to recoup. So my quesion still stands, is it really worth it? Can OP not get the same joy from a Pcar if he makes a more practical choice of buying a nice used Porsche? Since OP is just starting out and making real money for the first time, where's the harm in being cautious your first year or so to get adjusted to the real cost of living, before making a purchase that is nearly 100% of a year's worth of wages (after tax)?


p.s. I take public transportation to work everyday. The freedom of not being tied down to loan/mortgage payments substantially decreases stress and I find makes my life more pleasant. But these are all choices OP is going to have to make on his own, I'm just offering my perspective.

1809

New member but long-time lurker here.

This post hits home for me as a physician and car enthusiast. My recommendations go along with what others have already mentioned... namely, pay off your debt while saving up the money for whatever car you'd like to buy. With your income (which will hopefully continue to increase over the years), you should buy your cars with cash in hand. I am currently saving up for a 911 and in a couple of years I hope to be able to buy a CPO 991.1 or 991.2 GTS once they start hitting the used car market with more regularity. Would I like to buy a spec'ed to order 911? I'd LOVE to, but I've decided that my current financial situation doesn't allow me to justify taking the depreciation hit as soon as I drive off the lot. That may change but my current financial priorities make it unlikely at this point.

The other thing to consider is whether or not you are hospital-employed. If you are employed by the hospital, how long is your contract? Current trends indicate that hospital-employed physicians typically get the sweetest deal from their initial contract. After that, hospitals will use any and all metrics to justify paying you less than they did initially to "get you in the fold." Just some food for thought.

whodatmofo

The OP is here!

Guys,
Thank you so much for all of the lengthy and in depth responses to this thread. I had no idea I even received a single reply because the email I used for Rennlist registration is very rarely used so I wasn't checking the emails letting me know of new posts.








You guys seem to be a very well educated and well informed bunch so I do sincerely appreciate the wealth of knowledge you have provided me with.

Now to address some of the points that you brought up.

Student Loans / Debt: I currently have 95k in student loan debt. I am making this a priority and it shouldn't be long until I can pay it off in full. In fact, I could pay it off right now using my signing bonus and incentives + what I have in the bank. That may be what I do. That is all the debt I have, my wife and I are renting our home right now but ownership is definitely a goal (renting to see how we like our area before we settle down).

As of right now I drive a 2015 M4 that will be payed off within the next 3 months. I don't consider this debt because I could pay it off if I want to right now. But, like I mentioned in the OP, I don't like having cash tied up in cars, even though I consider myself a young enthusiast.

whodatmofo

The past weeks have had me doing a lot of thinking, researching, and driving of cars. I've grown a bit tired of the M4 so I will be moving on from it and selling it very shortly. I started looking for something to be my next Daily Driver. I thought about the Turbo S and the R8 (similarly priced) but decided against such an expensive DD. I test drove a base Carrera that I wasn't all that impressed with especially considering it's price after the options I would want. I then went over to my local Mercedes Benz Dealership and drove a 2017 C63 AMG S Coupe. I LOVE this car. It's an absolute blast to drive and the interior is second to none in its class. This, in all likelihood, will be my next DD after I sell the M4. The M4 sale money will go to buying the C63 and I'll gladly cover the rest out of pocket to have it paid off immediately. I know I said I don't like having money tied up in cars, but, with the sale money of the M4, it just makes sense this time.

whodatmofo

So, this will leave me in pretty much the same position that I was in before; I have a nice DD, but no really fun weekend or afternoon drive car.

I immediately went to work to solve this problem. I test drove a 991.2 TTS at my local dealer and, to be completely honest, wasn't all that impressed. For a 200k car it lacks exotic styling. The interior felt a bit dated and the ride was very tame and quiet. They let me do a launch and that was INSANE. I just don't think it makes up for the rest.

whodatmofo

Next I drove an R8 Plus. Loved the interior and the ride but the exterior looked better in photos IMO. Seems a little girly if you can believe that. Not quite what I was looking for.

Finally, I drove the almighty HURACAN. I so giddy upon getting to the dealership and couldn't believe that I was about to drive a Lambo. I drove a Spyder because that's what I'd get if I bought one. The experience was absolutely incredible. For one, the exterior is absolute stunning and outrageous, just what I'd want in a Lambo. It was insanely quick and agile and the sounds was spectacular especially with the top down.

So, after a lot of thinking and a lot of writing, I've basically decided to get that C63 as my DD, finish paying off my student loans, make home ownership a priority, and only THEN consider the Huracan Spyder if I can put 75% or more down.

whodatmofo

I thought about this just after I posted my last post. Either way, I'd have the cash set aside to either a) pay cash in full, b) a substantial down payment, or c) finance payments.

1809

You're heading down a similar path as I did although you're a bit more ambitious than I am. I currently have a 2014 E63 as my daily driver (I needed to be able to fit my three daughters when needed and wanted 4matic because of the winters here). Less ambitiously , I'm looking at a 991.1 GTS as a weekend car once they start hitting the used car market in earnest.

GT345

Wait till you buy a house... You don't want your DTI to be high due to a car loan and then you will not qualify for a home loan. Home first, then car(s)

Mark Dreyer

Banks make exceptions to rules for doctors. I've experienced that and I'm not even a real doctor, being a dentist. :-)

ToasterThief

I'm in an almost identical position to you (but a different specialty). FWIW, I decided to get a used Cayman as my splurge. In all honesty it feels a bit ridiculous, but I figure 60k isn't that ridiculous and will at least allow me to quickly begin to catch up on retirement contributions.

Either way, congrats!

GT345

For a car sure... for a home a bit different. Banks are not what they used to be when it comes to buying a home.

If he is buying a 200K car, chances are he wants to buy a nice house and will qualify for a home based off his credit score, credit history, income, and current debt and a 200K car loan will qualify him for less home since he will have a 2k+ loan payment.

If he buys the home first, then he will qualify for even better rates on the car since he is a "home owner".

Also he is looking at a Turbo car not something like a GT3 or something else where cost of ownership is very low since resell is so strong, but not so much on a Turbo car at least short term.

Seems everyone is telling him to buy it!! But rather think if your son or daughter was asking you this question... How would you answer then?

ace37

Physician home loan programs are great in some states and mediocre or even inferior to a traditional loan in others. Typically there's no PMI and little down payment but the rest varies quite a bit. Depending on the offer the minimum down payment might be 0-10% and I saw rates that were the same as a traditional (20% down) and others that were a full 1% higher than the most competitive rates. Local financing means it varies widely.

Here in Utah the lending guidelines qualified us for a home prices at something like 7-10x our gross annual household income and in our region that was far more than made sense, so a large car loan would not have had any impact at all.

GT345

Well not sure where this person lives but I personally live in California and I can promise you homes here are much higher then Utah so again there are a few variables here.

My point is very simple, not smart to buy such an expensive car without even owning a home. That is not putting your priorities in the right order.