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Question 1:
Do people here generally consider the "Base" version of their cars slow or under-powered? Do you generally feel there is an attitude that the "S" is really the standard, and the buyers of the "Base" only do so if they can't afford it? Why isn't the discssuion more, "if you need the extra power for track or DE, then you get the S or the GTS"?
Question 2:
Is it important that your Porsche is faster than other cars out there? Does it have to be faster than a Mustang? Or is speed not even the real issue, but it's more about the experience and fun? But then if speed isn't the issue, see Question 1 about "Base" versions of cars.
If you look at the 0-60 times of Porsche cars over time:
A Base Cayman is much faster than a 904 or the 550 James Dean was driving when he died, but there are some people who think a Base Cayman isn't fast enough. Why exactly is this? The 550 was fast enough in those days, as was the 904...speed limits have stayed the same or have gotten even lower over time. People certainly aren't evolving to become better drivers either.
The Ultimate Question: How did we go from absolutely mind-blowing cars like the 904 (doing 0-60 times of 7 seconds and being amazing) to a 981 or even a 991 being considered "not fast enough" despite being much faster than the 904?
Because marketing and the utterly pointless auto journalism industry that measures nothing more than a theoretical pissing contest arms race.
To even find differences in cars, they need to take it to a track (where .0001% of actual driving occurs) where cars have 1/2 second differences.
Entire auto journalism industry should just go home.
In the real world, you can only use a fraction of even the base model without getting arrested. Base Boxster has 300HP. Case closed. Numbers and dick measuring is for people sitting on their computers. If you actually drive, all that stuff is meaningless. My old 3.2 has 200hp and I've never once been driving in public and sat there with the gas floored saying, "Com'on...Com'on.. go.....go....what's taking so long?" You can't even use the limits of a 30 year old car, without going to jail.
Modern performance cars? They are borderline unusable. Who wants a car that spins off the road if you press the gas more than 1/4 down?
As Alfa Romeo once said "It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast". That sentiment is what made the 550 so special and earned it the nickname of the "giant killer". Sugarwood is so right and pretty funny too. Think about it, the new Camaro and Mustangs have some impressive engine statistics, does that mean they will thrash a 911 on a track? Driver's equal I'd still be at the Zuffenhausen betting window. I can tell you this, I can't unleash the Spyder without getting into jail speeds easily and mine is the 3.4 variant.
imo, it's all blown out of proportion. owning a c4s, i happily admit i'll never use even 1/2 the capabilities of my ride. technology progresses, and resources enable those without any sense of proportion to go buy the biggest number they can afford.
everyone who owns a performance vehicle and doesn't track/race should take a 2 day course over in birmingham and be humbled by learning basic things (like braking as a way of shifting load, etc.) i think i remember paul newman (in 'winning') learning to race in an underpowered car as a way of developing skill, because the driver matters(!)
we got here b/c we watch top gear, read car mags, watch youtube review, etc. and, for many owners the car is a status symbol more than it is a performance object. like the many owners of steinway who don't know how to play the piano compared to the preciously small fraction who can play even moderately well.
and for the record, i like my wife's base 911 better than my c4s.
I know my 'fleet' list makes little sense, but that's OK neither do I on most days. I will freely admit I can have as much fun in my Miata MX-5, as I do in the Box-S, or the SLK-350, as I will in my new 991.2 TTS Cab. Car ownership is not really a rational idea for most people, its an emotional thing more times than not. While I do not own a Steinway, I do have a nice Yamaha Grand, I know maybe three or four songs, that people 'might' recognize.
I know my 'fleet' list makes little sense, but that's OK neither do I on most days. I will freely admit I can have as much fun in my Miata MX-5, as I do in the Box-S, or the SLK-350, as I will in my new 991.2 TTS Cab. Car ownership is not really a rational idea for most people, its an emotional thing more times than not. While I do not own a Steinway, I do have a nice Yamaha Grand, I know maybe three or four songs, that people 'might' recognize.
also for the record, i am not one to criticize any of the behaviors implied in your post. btw, the great glenn gould forsook steinway for a yamaha.
Question 1:
Do people here generally consider the "Base" version of their cars slow or under-powered? Do you generally feel there is an attitude that the "S" is really the standard, and the buyers of the "Base" only do so if they can't afford it? Why isn't the discssuion more, "if you need the extra power for track or DE, then you get the S or the GTS"?
Question 2:
Is it important that your Porsche is faster than other cars out there? Does it have to be faster than a Mustang? Or is speed not even the real issue, but it's more about the experience and fun? But then if speed isn't the issue, see Question 1 about "Base" versions of cars.
If you look at the 0-60 times of Porsche cars over time:
A Base Cayman is much faster than a 904 or the 550 James Dean was driving when he died, but there are some people who think a Base Cayman isn't fast enough. Why exactly is this? The 550 was fast enough in those days, as was the 904...speed limits have stayed the same or have gotten even lower over time. People certainly aren't evolving to become better drivers either.
The Ultimate Question: How did we go from absolutely mind-blowing cars like the 904 (doing 0-60 times of 7 seconds and being amazing) to a 981 or even a 991 being considered "not fast enough" despite being much faster than the 904?
From a European prospective you might even find that people prefer what the 'purity' of the base 911 says about you than a brand new, be-winged, black-over-black uber 911: less is more.
If you want to be cool in London you schlep around in a '60-70's '912', not a lava orange 991.1 GT3 RS: unless you've a deep penchant for a set of Dubai plates and chrome-gold is your favourite 'wrap'. I suspect that's not hugely different - given Singer's influence - from the US these days, too ?
And finally, 350-400 PS is way sufficient. Surely it's that iconic shape, some well chosen colour scheme (am a big fan of that 'cream' on your 997.2) and making a well-timed gear change that provides the pleasure - rather than advertising to the world that your bank-balance is inversely proportional to your personal aesthetics...?
Last edited by BertoneBertoni; 01-22-2017 at 05:06 PM.
There's an interesting concept presented in The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance where one man look at a motorcycle and just sees a combination of metal and rubber that propels you and one that sees a bmw bike.
Porsche brings a wide swath of owners together. Driving enthusiasts, car enthusiasts, affluent people, socialites. People but these cars for wildly different reasons.
When your drive a corvette around, everyone tries to get you to drive fast. Most are driven slow on the highway because there's no point to open it up there.
My Porsche is the second slowest car I've ever owned and it's is probably not the best chick magnet, but to me, it's just a collection of aluminum, steel, plastic and rubber that makes me happy.
There's an interesting concept presented in The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance where one man look at a motorcycle and just sees a combination of metal and rubber that propels you and one that sees a bmw bike.
Porsche brings a wide swath of owners together. Driving enthusiasts, car enthusiasts, affluent people, socialites. People but these cars for wildly different reasons.
When your drive a corvette around, everyone tries to get you to drive fast. Most are driven slow on the highway because there's no point to open it up there.
My Porsche is the second slowest car I've ever owned and it's is probably not the best chick magnet, but to me, it's just a collection of aluminum, steel, plastic and rubber that makes me happy.
I love my base 991.2 C2, and feel it more than fast enough for road driving. I also like the clean body shape, and that (with MT and without sunroof) it is the lightest in the current lineup.
When I shopped for a 987 Boxster several years ago, I was only looking for an S. At that time (and still), the 987.1 base seemed a bit under-powered, relative what the chassis could do.
12-23-2016, 05:18 AM
The "base" option too slow?
