katmeho

Ive got one and in debug mode I seem to be able to get at the raw data. Through some pattern analysis Im starting to make some progress, but its a PITA. This seems so stupid to have to do so much work for such a small ask of the car, but I think its important. Motec already has this information...the Clubsport is running their product with the only internconnect being the OBD2 port...I wish it was shared somewhere.

pvgolfer

Katmeho - thanks for your efforts to track this down. I'm on the fence about buying a data logger/video system until I know it will provide useful data with minimal effort and post processing. I'm tempted to get the AIM Solo DL for my GT4. But if the OBD-II connection doesn't provide some of the important basic data (ie, brake info), I'll need to hear some positive info on the CAN option.

ProCoach

CAN sniffing and going through pattern analysis is not necessary for use with ANY of the AiM components.

You should make clear that you are building your own protocol to use on an open source logger that this decoding does not exist for. As a matter of fact, the only specialized manufacturer protocol that exists for your desired logger application is for E46 BMW. I would go to the RCP forums...

The MoTeC protocol you cite (through the OBD-II connection) is a simple, generic protocol that does not include any of the specialized, bespoke, steering, brake pressure, wheel speeds, brake pressure available from the EXISTING AiM Porsche protocol.

Basically, anything other than engine coolant temperature, engine RPM and throttle position, present in the ISO 9141/2 standard, is NOT included on ANY MoTeC OBD-II connection, unless you build it (or pay MoTeC to build it). That's a far cry from a usable channel list.

Even the AiM OBD-II protocol for the GT4 offers MUCH more information that the MoteC Generic OBD-II protocol, which you would see if you were using an AiM logger, like a Solo DL.

For the GT4, information that is available plug and play for a Solo DL/EVO4/MXL2/MXS/MXG from the OBD-II port includes:

ECU_1 RPM RPM
ECU_2 WHEEL_SP_FL Front left wheel speed
ECU_3 WHEEL_SP_FR Front right wheel speed
ECU_4 WHEEL_SP_RL Rear left wheel speed
ECU_5 WHEEL_SP_RR Rear right wheel speed
ECU_6 THROTTLE_POS Throttle position sensor
ECU_7 ACCEL_POS Acceleration position
ECU_8 COOLANT_TEMP Engine coolant temperature
ECU_9 INTK_AIR_TEMP Intake air temperature
ECU_10 MANIFOLD_PRESS Manifold air pressure
ECU_11 FUEL_LEVEL Fuel level
ECU_12 STEER_ANGLE Steering angle
ECU_13 BRAKE_PRESS Brake pressure

pvgolfer, I can guarantee that this is the information you can get off the GT4 with an OBD-II connection with just a Solo DL and a SmartyCam HD. It's amazing.

Katmeho is on an honorable quest, but one rendered unnecessary if he was connecting to an AiM device!

katmeho

Im the first to admit that Im probably the least knowledgable person on this topic in this thread, so I appreciate the feedback and details you posted. And I am using the RC solution to try to sort this out, yes...but I thought what I was asking for (Porsche PID details) was specific to the car I bought, not the data analysis tool that I am using. I wasn't trying to get AIM to give up secret sauce for nothing. Given your input, which is that AIM has already done all the hard work, what I really want is the AIM setup. I'm concerned about the confusion though, because there are GT3 guys that were on the AIM Solo DL solution that have moved it over to the GT4 are complaining that they don't see all of the PIDs listed in the documentation. They are seeing what I see, which you defined as the ISO 9141/2 standard. There was also a big back and forth on AIM version numbers and it caused two users to upgrade but they with no fix to the lack of brake pressure. Maybe they dont have RS2 configured correctly? So if there is a definitive yes with the Solo DL, then I will get that.

ProCoach

Porsche will not (nor will any other manufacturer) share their PID's. It is the logger manufacturer that must work these out in order to define the proper channel assignments and, more importantly, values for those channels. I was a KickStarter backer for RCP, but I am not a coder and so it sits...

The MAJOR reason why I don't sell more Video VBOX was the crappy and spotty protocol support. That's why I turned to AiM. And that's why AiM is the master of this aspect of logging sensors already on cars!

Yes, you want the AiM setup, and I will give you a deal, this week and next, if you want one.

This is why this technology is not a "blister pack" commodity. It does take some understanding to figure out how to interface properly with HUNDREDS of different applications. For Porsche, there are multiple ways of connecting to the vehicle (with EACH connection protocol using different PID's) and MULTIPLE ECU's, so no, you can't pull it out of one car (especially between generation change of models) and expect it to work.

I NEVER send equipment (MoTeC, AiM, VVB) to clients without configuring it for THEIR SPECIFIC application, saves both of us a lot of time and aggro!

I just sent a CAN cable to a 987.2 owner in Cali and sent him resources on how to change his Solo DL config to take advantage of the new connection.

Let me know if I can help, but the stuff is not quite smart enough to to automatically and by itself, KNOW what car and what connection path a user's car is when connected, without telling it first.

I don't even want to get into MoTeC, and I am a dealer!

pvgolfer

Peter - Thanks for the clarification! That's the answer I wanted to hear.

Ok, I'm ready to buy! Will send you an email...

ProCoach

Full Stop!

Maybe not so quickly, I may have misled you all.

Before I began to put together katmeho's order, and despite my posts above, I had enough doubt that I visited my friend and fellow track addict, General Manager John Alvi, at Leith Porsche in Raleigh this morning.

He had a few 981 2015 and 2016 cars (plus a delectable 991 GT3 RS being prepped for delivery) and happily allowed me to plug in and check...

Now, I have extensive experience connecting 991 with OBDII and CAN, as well as CAN connection to a 981 Boxster Spyder, and all three of those get brake pressure, TPS, wheel speeds, etc.

When I checked the 981 at the dealership this morning using the 991_981_OBDII protocol, the RPM, TPS and PPS, ECT and a few other measures worked, but NOT the wheel speeds, fuel level or, wait for it, brake pressure.

So, while I know the 991, 991 GT3 and now 991 GT3RS brethren are taken care of with a simple plug and play connection through the existing OBD-II port, the 981 OBD-II connection WILL NOT yield a brake pressure sensor reading, among others.

Very sorry to have been SO strident. While AiM states clearly that not all configurations for multiple model protocols are tested, I read what I wanted to believe and coupled that with my 991 OBDII and 981 CAN experience, incorrectly surmising that the 981 OBD-II would work...

One good thing is that becuase this is a current model, development work continues to refine the protocol and hopefully add functionality. Will keep you all posted.

Again, I apologize. I sent a note to katmeho and he's going to hold off for a little while or at least until he becomes more comfortable with the idea of a physical, electircal connection to the vehicle's harness.

I'll offer support to make that as painless as possble, but that is the only way to get brake pressure now.

pvgolfer

Doh!... Did my wife put you up to this??? She had promised this to me for Xmas...

You can make it up to me by asking your friend and fellow track addict to get me an RS at sticker???

I guess I'm back "on the fence" on data logging...

katmeho

Peter has gone the extra mile here, he had my CC info and was ready to ship. The extra attention to detail and commitment to getting all of the right data for us is extraordinary. I will be buying my AIM solution from him in the future, Im convinced in my conversations with him that its the way to go for a full feature solution...theres some people that are doing the wire in option and I'd like to see that on a GT4 since I dont trust my own judgement when it comes to the wiring (see my other posts on what I did to reroute my OBD2 port). Perhaps AIM will provide an update to their solutions for our ECU and we will be able to avoid it. Im sure they want to be plug and play as much as possible to make it easier to sell to us drivers.

Again, Peter really was awesome through all my previous efforts with the RCP2 and in getting me to see the reality of the AIM offering and then being invested in his customer experience rather than just making a one time sale.

pvgolfer

Yes, agreed... Peter had answered a bunch of questions that I had a few weeks ago. I hope you guys get it worked out. Thanks again to both of you for the effort!

ProCoach

Thank you to both for the kind words.

I will be moving forward with this quickly, not only because I have to equip a few GT4CS's () for pre-season testing, but also because I have a fair number of coaching clients and AiM customers who have "moved up" to the GT4 and I need to know that the CAN works, without fail!

While I have seen a few current model protocols updated, I think it's going to be sometime before the 991_981_OBDII protocol will gain complete 981 functionality. It already has complete 991 functionality.

In the end, it is rare that ANY of these protocols offer FULL channel functionality, but the CAN protocols tend to do MUCH better. I don't know why.

Will keep you both posted.

m-world

Peter,

Regarding the 981s which did not return brake pressure among other channels while using the 991_981_OBDII protocol, were they all manual transmission cars? (GT4s are obviously manual only)

Stefano from AiM Italy told me that 991_981_OBDII has full functionality for PDK cars only. If you have a PDK car that doesn't return all channels via OBD2, we should let him know

ProCoach

Richard, I have tested the OBDII protocol only on PDK cars, not yet on manual cars.

2016 991 GT3 RS offers full functionality (fun testing that!).

All 2014-2016 981's tested do not return four wheel speeds, fuel level or brake pressure.

I'll forward this to Stafano via the list serve this morning.

FergusH

I asked AiM about GT4 break pressure support a few weeks ago. The person I spoke to said he'd get more information after PRI. Here's the email I got from him yesterday:

---------

Brake pressure is not available as of now for that car. It is on our list of protocols to get updated but there is currently no set date for that.

--
Mike McKnight

AiM Sports
AiM Sports, LLC

ProCoach

This is not a new issue, especially with protocols that serve more than one manufacturer model, in this case 991 AND 981.

For those who date back, it used to be that good information (including brake light switch status and other measures) were ONLY available on Porsche cars via direct CAN connection. The generic OBDII protocol yielded little or nothing.

The OBDII protocol has always been very good on 997.2 911's but crappy on 997.2 GT3 variants because of the DIFFERENT ECU.

Jerry, Matt, Richard and I, as "activist" dealers (some would say "hacktivist" ) have been making it as easy as possible to connect directly to the vehicle CAN twisted pair communications to get this information CURRENTLY, so this issue can be framed differently, I believe.

The GT4 and other 981 variants have this information accessible via the direct connection, just not via OBDII, right now.

I work with many shops and individual car in owners to help them quickly, easily and without issue make those connections.

While I do think the protocol MAY eventually include brake pressure (and all four wheel speeds plus fuel level) through the OBDII connection at some point, the fact that they ARE available through an existing CAN connection is encouraging.

The PID's are different for each connection BETWEEN 991 and 981 models, that's the issue.