Engine blew - options? advice?
08-18-2016, 12:59 AM
#1
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Engine blew - options? advice?
Hi all,
I have (had
) a gorgeous 2002 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. I bought her after I graduated college many moons ago, and she's treated me well. Sadly, a few weeks ago, her engine died (on my birthday, of all days). And now, I'm just looking for options for what to do with her.
I've looked into rebuilding the engine, or dropping a replacement in, but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense given her age and the cost. I could part her out, but that seems like a lot of trouble. I'm more leaning towards selling her as-is. Has anyone done this before? I'm not even sure how much is reasonable to ask for a 986 with a good body but a blown engine. Anyone have any advice to share? Avenues to explore?
Thanks in advance!
Charles
P.S. Attached is Anna taken earlier this summer after a nice detailing. The good ol' days
I have (had
) a gorgeous 2002 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. I bought her after I graduated college many moons ago, and she's treated me well. Sadly, a few weeks ago, her engine died (on my birthday, of all days). And now, I'm just looking for options for what to do with her.I've looked into rebuilding the engine, or dropping a replacement in, but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense given her age and the cost. I could part her out, but that seems like a lot of trouble. I'm more leaning towards selling her as-is. Has anyone done this before? I'm not even sure how much is reasonable to ask for a 986 with a good body but a blown engine. Anyone have any advice to share? Avenues to explore?
Thanks in advance!
Charles
P.S. Attached is Anna taken earlier this summer after a nice detailing. The good ol' days
08-18-2016, 09:26 AM
#2
from the few photos it looks like a clean car so get started by calling a few salvage yards for a price on a used engine then add in r+r labor plus ALL the parts needed .you can make the decision if you want to drop that kinda coin in it. or ask the salvage yards if they want to buy it/if you have the room and your neighbors do not care ...part it out [many pit falls here] next try to sell it as a roller
08-18-2016, 11:18 AM
#3
Race Director
First you have my sincerest sympathy for the situation in which you find yourself.
Right off the bat let me say I would not want to take up the job of parting out a Boxster in any condition. A part time, from home, auto salvage business is a nasty enterprise and not woth the hassle/mess.
Are you sure the engine has blown? There can be some engine problems that while serious are not fatal and the engine can be repaired and the car back on the road. The cost can be rather high but to some the cost is worth it.
If the engine is truely blown and in need of very expensive and hard to come by rebuilding or if the engine is beyond rebuilding then as extanker mentioned there is replacement.
A new/replacement engine sourced from a dealer's parts department is I think out of the question. (Might mention there have been reports, just a few, of people going this way and finding that the cost is much less than had been reported but I seem to recall the engine had to be ordered then the actual cost was found out later. If correct not a course of action I'd be comfortable with unless I had the right to refuse the engine with no penalty -- restocking fee, etc. -- if the price came in at an unacceptable level.)
So there is an engine sourced from a Porche salvage business. A number of owners have gone this route most with success. It helps to have a tech one can rely upon to help one pick a suitable engine. Ideally it wants to be an engine that can be started and run or at least cranked and a compression test done. This doesn't give one a total picture of the engine's condition but in this case it is better than nothing.
Also, it helps if the business will give you an exchange or money back guarantee if the engine proves to be very sick/or dead out of the crate so to speak.
Check the ads in an Excellence managzine or in a Panorama magazine for businesses that deal in salvage Porsches and call some and see what you can sell the car for as a roller.
I almost dealt with Oklahoma Foreign some few years ago -- back in 2009 -- and was impressed with my interaction with the company. I ended up taking my totaled Cayman S to a nearby -- 20 miles away -- large auction facility and having the car auctioned in one of the weekly salvage car auctions.
So, you might check out auto auction businesses in your area to see if this is a possible course of action for you. If the auction will accept the car. The cost? The process? And so on.
As an aside: I note you are in Washington -- based on the plate. If you were closer I'd be tempted to buy the car as a roller and then have an engine installed. But I"m not anxious to try to deal with the purchase and arranging to have the car trucked to my location. (I am in the middle of very demanding and "hot" project at work and I have barely enough time for this interaction.)
Regardless of what you end up doing, best of luck.
Right off the bat let me say I would not want to take up the job of parting out a Boxster in any condition. A part time, from home, auto salvage business is a nasty enterprise and not woth the hassle/mess.
Are you sure the engine has blown? There can be some engine problems that while serious are not fatal and the engine can be repaired and the car back on the road. The cost can be rather high but to some the cost is worth it.
If the engine is truely blown and in need of very expensive and hard to come by rebuilding or if the engine is beyond rebuilding then as extanker mentioned there is replacement.
A new/replacement engine sourced from a dealer's parts department is I think out of the question. (Might mention there have been reports, just a few, of people going this way and finding that the cost is much less than had been reported but I seem to recall the engine had to be ordered then the actual cost was found out later. If correct not a course of action I'd be comfortable with unless I had the right to refuse the engine with no penalty -- restocking fee, etc. -- if the price came in at an unacceptable level.)
So there is an engine sourced from a Porche salvage business. A number of owners have gone this route most with success. It helps to have a tech one can rely upon to help one pick a suitable engine. Ideally it wants to be an engine that can be started and run or at least cranked and a compression test done. This doesn't give one a total picture of the engine's condition but in this case it is better than nothing.
Also, it helps if the business will give you an exchange or money back guarantee if the engine proves to be very sick/or dead out of the crate so to speak.
Check the ads in an Excellence managzine or in a Panorama magazine for businesses that deal in salvage Porsches and call some and see what you can sell the car for as a roller.
I almost dealt with Oklahoma Foreign some few years ago -- back in 2009 -- and was impressed with my interaction with the company. I ended up taking my totaled Cayman S to a nearby -- 20 miles away -- large auction facility and having the car auctioned in one of the weekly salvage car auctions.
So, you might check out auto auction businesses in your area to see if this is a possible course of action for you. If the auction will accept the car. The cost? The process? And so on.
As an aside: I note you are in Washington -- based on the plate. If you were closer I'd be tempted to buy the car as a roller and then have an engine installed. But I"m not anxious to try to deal with the purchase and arranging to have the car trucked to my location. (I am in the middle of very demanding and "hot" project at work and I have barely enough time for this interaction.)
Regardless of what you end up doing, best of luck.
08-18-2016, 12:47 PM
#4
Drifting
Macster gives great advice from personal experience of the same issue.
I have had your situation too.I suggest slightly a different approach.
First find an M96 Indie.By that I mean a place recommended by Rennlisters that specializes in rebuilding M96 engines. Get an estimate from them.These are few and far between.
Second ,find a 996/Boxster specialist and ask him to help you source a good used engine and fit it. He will have contacts and will have much more leverage than you if it goes wrong.
The key is to use people who are specialists and are recommended by P-Car people. Use these sources to get estimates and check back here.
Accept that this is an emotional choice not a hard-headed financial one.
It is also potentially a voyage of discovery - as Macster hinted - get an M96 expert to diagnose your specific engine repair.Yours is probably a single row IMSB so it is a good opportunity to do some deep diving into the mechanicals.
I hope this helps you.
To give you an optimistic recent anecdote -a similar Post turned out to be just a defective AOS ! Lots of smoke and drama but nothing major.
I have had your situation too.I suggest slightly a different approach.
First find an M96 Indie.By that I mean a place recommended by Rennlisters that specializes in rebuilding M96 engines. Get an estimate from them.These are few and far between.
Second ,find a 996/Boxster specialist and ask him to help you source a good used engine and fit it. He will have contacts and will have much more leverage than you if it goes wrong.
The key is to use people who are specialists and are recommended by P-Car people. Use these sources to get estimates and check back here.
Accept that this is an emotional choice not a hard-headed financial one.
It is also potentially a voyage of discovery - as Macster hinted - get an M96 expert to diagnose your specific engine repair.Yours is probably a single row IMSB so it is a good opportunity to do some deep diving into the mechanicals.
I hope this helps you.
To give you an optimistic recent anecdote -a similar Post turned out to be just a defective AOS ! Lots of smoke and drama but nothing major.
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 08-18-2016 at 05:22 PM.
08-18-2016, 06:23 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Do you know why it blew? Could it be a comparatively minor issue?
If we knew where your car was, maybe we could suggest a place that could do a diagnosis...as opposed to so many who have no knowledge of the internals of these M96 engines.
Years ago, I wrote this up based on a lot of postings by people who had experience in dealing with the issue of a blown engine. Not much has changed except there are probably slightly different prices now.
The term for a car with blown engine is "roller". A search of this forum for that term would probably yield some prices.
My sympathy, they are great cars until they aren't...just like any other car that old. But this one is one you know and love. Your decision.
If we knew where your car was, maybe we could suggest a place that could do a diagnosis...as opposed to so many who have no knowledge of the internals of these M96 engines.
Years ago, I wrote this up based on a lot of postings by people who had experience in dealing with the issue of a blown engine. Not much has changed except there are probably slightly different prices now.
The term for a car with blown engine is "roller". A search of this forum for that term would probably yield some prices.
My sympathy, they are great cars until they aren't...just like any other car that old. But this one is one you know and love. Your decision.
08-19-2016, 12:19 AM
#6
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Wow, thank you all for the great advice! This has been extremely helpful!
From what I've gathered, it sounds like parting out is a last resort. I did look at a replacement engine from Porsche, and Macster, you're right, not a feasible option. I have not looked into salvage yards, though, so I will be sure to try that out. As for seeking out specialists, I've been lucky in that regard. The mechanics at the shop I go to have been great (Gerber Motorsport, for anyone in the Seattle area - they rock!). I've been able to send them any potential replacement engines I've found and they've been nice enough to give me their yay/nay assessment. In the end, it sounds like I have more research to do, more doors to knock on. But this has been very helpful. Thanks everyone for your advice!
P.S. For those wondering how I know the engine is blown, we found heavy metal shavings in the oil after I towed her to the shop. I wish it were something else less serious, but I think that's a sure sign that the engine is toast
From what I've gathered, it sounds like parting out is a last resort. I did look at a replacement engine from Porsche, and Macster, you're right, not a feasible option. I have not looked into salvage yards, though, so I will be sure to try that out. As for seeking out specialists, I've been lucky in that regard. The mechanics at the shop I go to have been great (Gerber Motorsport, for anyone in the Seattle area - they rock!). I've been able to send them any potential replacement engines I've found and they've been nice enough to give me their yay/nay assessment. In the end, it sounds like I have more research to do, more doors to knock on. But this has been very helpful. Thanks everyone for your advice!
P.S. For those wondering how I know the engine is blown, we found heavy metal shavings in the oil after I towed her to the shop. I wish it were something else less serious, but I think that's a sure sign that the engine is toast
08-19-2016, 12:33 AM
#7
Drifting
Based on my own similar experience ,you are wise not to rebuild. Just way too expensive to have it done correctly by a shop. The metal debris may be scattered throughout the engine. Retrieving every last piece is essential.And the there is the collateral damage to expensive components like the scavenge pumps.
I spent around $7k in parts and special tools and did the job myself. In my case I caught the problem before a total failure and the P.O. had wisely added an LN filter. That LN filter +magnetic drain plug was amazingly effective and a very wise investment. Without that the parts cost would have been prohibitive.
Let us know what you do because unlike my car, yours is in astonishingly good condition.
I spent around $7k in parts and special tools and did the job myself. In my case I caught the problem before a total failure and the P.O. had wisely added an LN filter. That LN filter +magnetic drain plug was amazingly effective and a very wise investment. Without that the parts cost would have been prohibitive.
Let us know what you do because unlike my car, yours is in astonishingly good condition.
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 08-19-2016 at 12:48 AM.
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08-19-2016, 01:33 AM
#8
Well, please find here also my best and sincere sympathy message for this quite bad event.
Now, let’s be logical in such situation:
First, there is clearly a market out there, for a Boxster S (6 speeds) with a dead engine, i.e.: a Boxster Roller.
Even myself, before I bought my Boxster S, I was looking at cars that would have a defective engine.
If a Boxster with a defective engine has a market out there, so, it means that fixing a Boxster engine is highly possible ! Right ?
Now, it all depend how much you like it ! Sure, if in your mind, you did not had the smile anymore, when entering on it, and go for a ride, but, in the opposite, you would have in your mind “one of this day, I want to change this car”, then, ..your solution to this problem would be different.
I would also do not think about parting it out, this is a LOT of time, and you need to be very patient. Many people, very well organized are doing that professionally and doing this from home as a hobby looks like a crazy tough job for me too !
I have changed many parts on my Boxster, and I have tried to sell some of the removed parts, and I can tell you that it is all but not easy. (i.e.: My garage is filling up, and a part of my ebay offers do remain unsold !)
Beside all of that, in my opinion, there is another reason that a “good” market exists for Boxster Roller : After 30 years non stop of 911 as daily, and a real lot of miles on few different 911’s, I can say that the Boxster is a fabulous chassis, much nicer to drive than a 911, particularly on track, much more efficient, much more easier to drive fast than a 911.
Sure it gives a lot less “thumbs up’s” but, in my case, this is even something that I prefer.
IMO, the only “problem” of the Boxster, ..is that it lacks “juice”, i.e.: more power!
So, if you find another guy that think like me, i.e.: the Boxster is perfect, but, want more power on it, then, I think it is better to buy a good Boxster with a dead engine, and then get the engine of your choice, with more power, ..than “doing that” with a running Boxster !
By the way, being a PCA member, and reading Panorama, I saw, (this month again), the ad below, i.e.: why not checking with this path ? ..if you still love your car !
Now, let’s be logical in such situation:
First, there is clearly a market out there, for a Boxster S (6 speeds) with a dead engine, i.e.: a Boxster Roller.
Even myself, before I bought my Boxster S, I was looking at cars that would have a defective engine.
If a Boxster with a defective engine has a market out there, so, it means that fixing a Boxster engine is highly possible ! Right ?
Now, it all depend how much you like it ! Sure, if in your mind, you did not had the smile anymore, when entering on it, and go for a ride, but, in the opposite, you would have in your mind “one of this day, I want to change this car”, then, ..your solution to this problem would be different.
I would also do not think about parting it out, this is a LOT of time, and you need to be very patient. Many people, very well organized are doing that professionally and doing this from home as a hobby looks like a crazy tough job for me too !
I have changed many parts on my Boxster, and I have tried to sell some of the removed parts, and I can tell you that it is all but not easy. (i.e.: My garage is filling up, and a part of my ebay offers do remain unsold !)
Beside all of that, in my opinion, there is another reason that a “good” market exists for Boxster Roller : After 30 years non stop of 911 as daily, and a real lot of miles on few different 911’s, I can say that the Boxster is a fabulous chassis, much nicer to drive than a 911, particularly on track, much more efficient, much more easier to drive fast than a 911.
Sure it gives a lot less “thumbs up’s” but, in my case, this is even something that I prefer.
IMO, the only “problem” of the Boxster, ..is that it lacks “juice”, i.e.: more power!
So, if you find another guy that think like me, i.e.: the Boxster is perfect, but, want more power on it, then, I think it is better to buy a good Boxster with a dead engine, and then get the engine of your choice, with more power, ..than “doing that” with a running Boxster !
By the way, being a PCA member, and reading Panorama, I saw, (this month again), the ad below, i.e.: why not checking with this path ? ..if you still love your car !
08-19-2016, 02:14 AM
#9
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You can try selling it as a roller with clean title. It would be a Liquidation sale. Typically half of what market value would be on a running Boxster S.
Parting it out would take forever and nobody is fighting for the parts. Waste of time.
You can always try to find another engine from a dismantler, Install it and continue driving it or sell it.
(However, I am not sure what it costs to do an engine swap nowadays in a 97-04 Boxster... Might be too costly compared to the resale of the car.)
These old boxsters typically end up in the scrap yard or PCA spec boxster series.
Car looks clean, would be worth saving by finding another engine and continue to enjoy if you are partial to the car, otherwise dump and go.
Parting it out would take forever and nobody is fighting for the parts. Waste of time.
You can always try to find another engine from a dismantler, Install it and continue driving it or sell it.
(However, I am not sure what it costs to do an engine swap nowadays in a 97-04 Boxster... Might be too costly compared to the resale of the car.)
These old boxsters typically end up in the scrap yard or PCA spec boxster series.
Car looks clean, would be worth saving by finding another engine and continue to enjoy if you are partial to the car, otherwise dump and go.
08-19-2016, 06:37 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
So among all the options, a used engine is one of the cheapest. But the temptation then arises to do things while the engine is sitting out of the car (water pump, AOS, motor mounts, plastic parts like the water and oil tank tubes, oil filtration system, IMS, RMS, clutch, etc). Or there is the need to correct age/wear related valve train issues which can run up the cost. A pristine "roller" may be $3.5k in the right market. Is the car going to be worth the used engine, labor and improvements costs to get it to where you have confidence in it? Only you can say.
BTW, I sold a 68k miles '01S for $13.5k 2 years ago that needed nothing and had brand new PS2 N spec tires on all 4 wheels with less than a hundred miles on them. So that should help a bit with your financial part of the decision as financial sanity says don't put more than $8-10k more into it. But sometimes we make decisions based on affection. I actually would have loved for mine to go as I was itching to have Jake work his magic with a mild 3.6 for ~$30k.
Golly we love 'em but there comes a point...
BTW, I sold a 68k miles '01S for $13.5k 2 years ago that needed nothing and had brand new PS2 N spec tires on all 4 wheels with less than a hundred miles on them. So that should help a bit with your financial part of the decision as financial sanity says don't put more than $8-10k more into it. But sometimes we make decisions based on affection. I actually would have loved for mine to go as I was itching to have Jake work his magic with a mild 3.6 for ~$30k.
Golly we love 'em but there comes a point...
08-22-2016, 12:31 PM
#12
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Good morning, my name is Mark, I'm a new member on this forum, but active over on 986 forum. I noticed you post about your 02 S, sorry to here about your situation. I've parted out and repaired quite a few 986 Boxsters. The reason I'm writing to you is that I might be able to help.
Where are you located? If you decide to replace the engine, I have a 80,281 mile 3.2L S engine available and ready to ship. I took a video of it running as well that shows the VIN. I bought the car from Copart a few months back and have paperwork from the car.
If you decide to sell the car as a roller, depending on where you are I might be interested.
Where are you located? If you decide to replace the engine, I have a 80,281 mile 3.2L S engine available and ready to ship. I took a video of it running as well that shows the VIN. I bought the car from Copart a few months back and have paperwork from the car.
If you decide to sell the car as a roller, depending on where you are I might be interested.
08-26-2016, 02:13 PM
#13
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Thanks again everyone for all of the great advice! Glad to know I'm not alone 
@Paseb: I may take you up on that! I'm still doing my research, but will reach out if I do!
@diff operator: I'm located in Seattle, WA, almost as far as can be from Daytona Beach
Regarding your engine, I may reach out to you too!
@Paseb: I may take you up on that! I'm still doing my research, but will reach out if I do!
@diff operator: I'm located in Seattle, WA, almost as far as can be from Daytona Beach
Regarding your engine, I may reach out to you too!
10-15-2016, 12:14 AM
#14
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I think ther are many options found this one in under 10 min. I play the what if it happens to me. I know my car, well maintained. Repalce engine or replace unkown car. I take out the emotion and its just a business decision.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-3-2L-...3D291874306392
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-3-2L-...3D291874306392
10-15-2016, 12:37 AM
#15
Drifting
Plus labor and a few 'while you are in there' jobs and it is over $5k.
That illustrates the interest in the diy rebuild+upgrade option(if you are able to do it) . For a few grand more ,you can have a much,much better engine than an unknown ,used 100,000k engine that has all the inherent faults that caused the original to fail.
Either way it is bad.
That illustrates the interest in the diy rebuild+upgrade option(if you are able to do it) . For a few grand more ,you can have a much,much better engine than an unknown ,used 100,000k engine that has all the inherent faults that caused the original to fail.
Either way it is bad.