Went Shopping to replace my 986S - did not buy
04-03-2016, 03:12 PM
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Went Shopping to replace my 986S - did not buy
I have a '03 S and was considering a change. I owned an '84 Carrera before that. I was disappointed with Porsche due to the IMS issue and was considering a change. I read a lot off the forums, but rarely post. I thought this broad comparison would be of interest.
I was looking for a sports car. I wanted a car with a lot of character and feel. I am willing to sacrifice luxury and performance to get such a car. Low weight is more important than high power. Other aspects I sought: roadster preferred (with roll bar, to qualify at the track), manual transmission, A/C, heat, radio, and a style I liked. I'd also like to be able to do maintenance and some repairs myself. I can on my '03 Boxster (some). My target investment is/was $75K.
I looked and drove....
Rossion Q1 - Fast, good feel, bit awkward, but not comfortable with maintainability, not a roadster.
Beck 904 - Fast, pure, not a roadster, little in creature comfort, great feel
Lotus Elise (normal) - Very light on the controls, to the point of less feel. But I'd want to tweak some of the looks. Easy to drive.
Alfa 4C - good steering feel. felt more solid than expected, no stick, new car, unsure about reliability and durability
Boxster Spyder (new) - loved the look, the sound, lots of extras in terms of electronic aides that are nice, but... Poor feel.
Interested in a Exige S Roadster (not US legal), Evora 400.
Focusing on the Spyder... I drove the Spyder and later a Boxster GTS back to back against my Boxster. I came so VERY close to buying a Spyder, but did not. For me to spend $100k, I want the car to be my everything and the Spyder wasn't. The Spyder steered perfectly, too perfect, there was no real feedback. My truck has more feedback, my Boxster beats the truck by a large margin and my old Carrera beats the Boxster by an equally large margin. I was surprised the Boxster Spyder felt like a GT, or sports sedan. It looked and sounded special, but did not feel special. I ended up liking and appreciating my Boxster a lot more. As 996/986 prices dropped with the IMS, I saw my Boxster as a relatively better car for the money, given what I want.
I decided to do nothing. I'll see what happens with the Evora 400 Roadster in a couple years. I was told it is more of a GT car, but it has the same type steering system as my Boxster. I may also get my currently stock Boxster engine rebuilt with all the reliability improvements. This is a less costly option too.
Mark
2003 Boxster S
I was looking for a sports car. I wanted a car with a lot of character and feel. I am willing to sacrifice luxury and performance to get such a car. Low weight is more important than high power. Other aspects I sought: roadster preferred (with roll bar, to qualify at the track), manual transmission, A/C, heat, radio, and a style I liked. I'd also like to be able to do maintenance and some repairs myself. I can on my '03 Boxster (some). My target investment is/was $75K.
I looked and drove....
Rossion Q1 - Fast, good feel, bit awkward, but not comfortable with maintainability, not a roadster.
Beck 904 - Fast, pure, not a roadster, little in creature comfort, great feel
Lotus Elise (normal) - Very light on the controls, to the point of less feel. But I'd want to tweak some of the looks. Easy to drive.
Alfa 4C - good steering feel. felt more solid than expected, no stick, new car, unsure about reliability and durability
Boxster Spyder (new) - loved the look, the sound, lots of extras in terms of electronic aides that are nice, but... Poor feel.
Interested in a Exige S Roadster (not US legal), Evora 400.
Focusing on the Spyder... I drove the Spyder and later a Boxster GTS back to back against my Boxster. I came so VERY close to buying a Spyder, but did not. For me to spend $100k, I want the car to be my everything and the Spyder wasn't. The Spyder steered perfectly, too perfect, there was no real feedback. My truck has more feedback, my Boxster beats the truck by a large margin and my old Carrera beats the Boxster by an equally large margin. I was surprised the Boxster Spyder felt like a GT, or sports sedan. It looked and sounded special, but did not feel special. I ended up liking and appreciating my Boxster a lot more. As 996/986 prices dropped with the IMS, I saw my Boxster as a relatively better car for the money, given what I want.
I decided to do nothing. I'll see what happens with the Evora 400 Roadster in a couple years. I was told it is more of a GT car, but it has the same type steering system as my Boxster. I may also get my currently stock Boxster engine rebuilt with all the reliability improvements. This is a less costly option too.
Mark
2003 Boxster S
04-03-2016, 11:28 PM
#5
04-04-2016, 06:05 AM
#6
Having a Boxster (S) since 3 years, (after 30 years of 911 as daily, most of these being cabs, ..except my very first one, that was a SC Coupe) I think I can understand "where you are".
I have the chance to know quite well the Exige's (4 in line tuned by Bemani, i.e.: 280hp as well as the V6 Cup, tuned by KomoTec, i.e.: currently 460hp), and being on numerous (European) tracks with these cars, I know that these are just incredible.
But, in the US (CA), I still prefer the Boxster (as fun car/track toy).
IMO, a tuned Boxster is the greatest "compromise".
Sure, I would say that the best handling is in my taste the McLaren (i.e.: the MP4-12C), but the budget is well over an Exige, and for sure over a Boxster.
Talking about the Boxster, I found that even an old “S”, when you equip it with Bilstein PSS9, and have great tires, it gets a real great handling.
The problem is that great tires (I currently use Nitto NT-01), offer so much grip, that lateral forces (you can get 1G quite easily !) set a danger for the oiling of the engine.
So, some “light” improvement are needed (i.e.: sump extension, metal oil baffle..) to play this game with limited dangers of oil starving.
You also have to change the lower control arms, in order to be able to set the geometry with negative camber, ..in order to let the sticky tires doing their work !
Then, I think, the next trick is to upgrade the front brakes and put Brembo 6 pistons caliper, together with larger rotors (need to have 18” rims, but, this is pretty normal !)
When this is done, the Boxster become real great, and the only missing part becomes the “juice”. Here, I would be for a 3.8 liter upgrade (“Nickies”).
Sure, in the engine, few things need to be done, like a smaller main pulley, as running on “high” rpm tend to put too much pressure on the power steering pump, a many specialists are saying also, that when the water pump get too much rpm, it creates to many turbulence and the cooling could be hurt.
The other good habit at this point is to have a lower temp thermostat, to let the engine run few degrees lower than the OEM running temperature, that is set higher, just to help having the catalysis converters in a more efficient temperature, but, running a Boxster in “sport” mode ..does that trick quite well, so being back at a lower water coolant temp is good for all the mechanical parts !
When you have done such mods, with an old Boxster S, you really have a fantastic car. Sure, it will not beat an Exige S V6 Cup, tuned by Komotec, but, in the budget side, ..it does beat it quite seriously !
(I can tell you that an Exige V6 Cup, with the 460hp Komotec kits can represent a very serious problem for any GT3 !)
Now, all of that to say that the latest Spyder (if you can still find one at MSRP !) is about the same as the “above”, but “all done” when you get off the dealer lot.
(Including the 6 pistons front calipers, ..and the 3.8 liter engine !)
I'm just so surprised that you did not like the new Spyder, as, I also tried it, ..and love it big time !
But, the 85k sticker v.s. an old "S" very well modified, play in favor of the latest choice, ..particularly for a "track toy", as, in such a case, ..you have a lot less of "85k fears" when you are playing with it on track.
Note that if the seats are a “problem”, it is quite easy to do such mod, using a third party supplier. (I have Sparco’s on mine, ..but modified them with Alcantara interior, and diamond stitching !)
All to say : no surprised, the Boxster is GREAT, ..keep it !
I have the chance to know quite well the Exige's (4 in line tuned by Bemani, i.e.: 280hp as well as the V6 Cup, tuned by KomoTec, i.e.: currently 460hp), and being on numerous (European) tracks with these cars, I know that these are just incredible.
But, in the US (CA), I still prefer the Boxster (as fun car/track toy).
IMO, a tuned Boxster is the greatest "compromise".
Sure, I would say that the best handling is in my taste the McLaren (i.e.: the MP4-12C), but the budget is well over an Exige, and for sure over a Boxster.
Talking about the Boxster, I found that even an old “S”, when you equip it with Bilstein PSS9, and have great tires, it gets a real great handling.
The problem is that great tires (I currently use Nitto NT-01), offer so much grip, that lateral forces (you can get 1G quite easily !) set a danger for the oiling of the engine.
So, some “light” improvement are needed (i.e.: sump extension, metal oil baffle..) to play this game with limited dangers of oil starving.
You also have to change the lower control arms, in order to be able to set the geometry with negative camber, ..in order to let the sticky tires doing their work !
Then, I think, the next trick is to upgrade the front brakes and put Brembo 6 pistons caliper, together with larger rotors (need to have 18” rims, but, this is pretty normal !)
When this is done, the Boxster become real great, and the only missing part becomes the “juice”. Here, I would be for a 3.8 liter upgrade (“Nickies”).
Sure, in the engine, few things need to be done, like a smaller main pulley, as running on “high” rpm tend to put too much pressure on the power steering pump, a many specialists are saying also, that when the water pump get too much rpm, it creates to many turbulence and the cooling could be hurt.
The other good habit at this point is to have a lower temp thermostat, to let the engine run few degrees lower than the OEM running temperature, that is set higher, just to help having the catalysis converters in a more efficient temperature, but, running a Boxster in “sport” mode ..does that trick quite well, so being back at a lower water coolant temp is good for all the mechanical parts !
When you have done such mods, with an old Boxster S, you really have a fantastic car. Sure, it will not beat an Exige S V6 Cup, tuned by Komotec, but, in the budget side, ..it does beat it quite seriously !
(I can tell you that an Exige V6 Cup, with the 460hp Komotec kits can represent a very serious problem for any GT3 !)
Now, all of that to say that the latest Spyder (if you can still find one at MSRP !) is about the same as the “above”, but “all done” when you get off the dealer lot.
(Including the 6 pistons front calipers, ..and the 3.8 liter engine !)
I'm just so surprised that you did not like the new Spyder, as, I also tried it, ..and love it big time !
But, the 85k sticker v.s. an old "S" very well modified, play in favor of the latest choice, ..particularly for a "track toy", as, in such a case, ..you have a lot less of "85k fears" when you are playing with it on track.
Note that if the seats are a “problem”, it is quite easy to do such mod, using a third party supplier. (I have Sparco’s on mine, ..but modified them with Alcantara interior, and diamond stitching !)
All to say : no surprised, the Boxster is GREAT, ..keep it !
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 04-04-2016 at 06:23 AM.
04-04-2016, 09:42 AM
#7
I'm not obsessed with the sport bucket seats. Generally I would not recommend them for a DD due to the inconvenience. And some people will not find them comfortable. As a retrofit they are stupid expensive. On track they are a compromise vs a real fixed back halo race seat. The OP stated he wants a car with character and feel and is willing to sacrifice luxury for that. I think a 987 Spyder may fit that description at a lower price point than the 981. And if he fits in the sport buckets they would add to the character and feel. That was the reason I added that comment.
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04-04-2016, 10:39 PM
#8
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I appreciate the comments... A couple notes as a follow up based on the comments...
GT4 - might like, but it's a coupe and sold out, still has an electrical steering just a different 'tune' as I understand it.
987 Spyder - that's and option.
GT3/Bucket seats. I fit VERY well in them. Ingress and egress is awkward. I like them anyway. The new Spyder I drove had buckets.
My '03 Boxster: I ordered it new, with sport seats, exhaust and suspension. I found the stock suspension just a bit floaty. I retrofitted the sport shift a year later when it became available. The sport suspension in my Boxster is tighter than the 2015 Boxster GTS in sport mode. Just barely, though. I tried very hard (in 2003) to get the optional (only in Europe) GT3 seats. I even had the option codes (left and right seat), but PCNA refused.
If I do the engine rebuild, I was looking at LN Engineering and would SERIOUSLY consider making it a 3.6 Stage I motor with the appropriate updates to improve oiling. I did DE my car a few times, but kept the suspension settings stock, and used street tires. There was another Boxster I saw, also on street tires, but with more track oriented suspension settings and he was noticeably faster on turns, so i understand that comment too.
Thanks all.
GT4 - might like, but it's a coupe and sold out, still has an electrical steering just a different 'tune' as I understand it.
987 Spyder - that's and option.
GT3/Bucket seats. I fit VERY well in them. Ingress and egress is awkward. I like them anyway. The new Spyder I drove had buckets.
My '03 Boxster: I ordered it new, with sport seats, exhaust and suspension. I found the stock suspension just a bit floaty. I retrofitted the sport shift a year later when it became available. The sport suspension in my Boxster is tighter than the 2015 Boxster GTS in sport mode. Just barely, though. I tried very hard (in 2003) to get the optional (only in Europe) GT3 seats. I even had the option codes (left and right seat), but PCNA refused.
If I do the engine rebuild, I was looking at LN Engineering and would SERIOUSLY consider making it a 3.6 Stage I motor with the appropriate updates to improve oiling. I did DE my car a few times, but kept the suspension settings stock, and used street tires. There was another Boxster I saw, also on street tires, but with more track oriented suspension settings and he was noticeably faster on turns, so i understand that comment too.
Thanks all.
