Macster

Unless what you posted was the sound of a Boxster engine that was later diagnosed with a bad IMSB the audio I'm sorry to say is useless.

Even if one has an audio of an engine suffering from IMSB failure there's the possibility the IMSB failure may not sound exactly alike each time. I seem to recall coming across posts by owners with what proved to be an engine experiencing IMSB failure and in cases where the noise was described the description varied significantly. In a few of these posts with video/audio clips not all audio sounded alike.

There's the death rattle, but there's also a more subdued noise, a low moan or a growl and there may be other audio manifestations of a pending IMSB failure.

Any noise that is id'd as coming from inside the engine from around the IMSB area has to be treated like it is coming from a failing IMSB. A proper diagnosis has to be made and made quickly. The longer the engine is run the more at risk it is it will suffer severe damage, collateral damage from the bad IMSB.

Furthermore, any noise that is id'd as coming from inside the engine, even if the noise is away from the IMSB area, has to be treated as very serious.

There are other assemblies in the engine -- chain tensioners, guides to name a couple -- that can also go bad and if ignored too long can come fail in a way the engine can suffer severe internal damage, maybe fatal damage.

In any of the above cases the best course of action is to avoid starting/running the engine and get it to someone one trusts to id the source of the noise and advise what one should do next.

Sincerely,

Macster.

CW-VIESOCK

Having eaten all my popcorn, I must say this thread is utterly pointless. If you suspect IMS failure, drop the oil, remove and cut open the filter. If you have plastic and or metal pieces in the filter, stop driving the car and get it repaired. If your filter comes out clean, drive on. It's that simple.

Posting videos of speculative noises is silly, unless you simply have nothing better to do with your time and that's ok too, being silly that is.

Macster

I think the OP meant well, was trying to be helpful.

To reinforce your advice, serious engine noises are interesting to some extent and can be a bit enlightening, but if the engine is making serious (or serious sounding) noises get the car to a tech first, record/post video/audio clips later, if at all.

You can be sure the 2nd person to hear any serious or suspected serious engine noises coming from any of my Porsche engines will be my favorite tech. I hope none of my cars require this attention to their noises but if so, while I may while the tech's listening to the engine I may try to capture the sound but I'm not going to risk an engine for the sake of a 30 second video/audio clip.

Sincerely,

Macster.

CW-VIESOCK

Agreed.

While operating your engine at recommenced rpm's, if one observes a strange noise that sounds harmful, shut the motor off and get solid information and or advise. Outside noises like wind, vehicles, industrial machines and pavement variations can contribute to odd sounding noises. Engines usually let you know rather quickly when the gig-is-up.

That's why proper maintenance is key with these engines and checking the oil filter is part of that "proper maintenance. This is what we bought from Porsche, so this is what we have.

silverboxter

here's my story. my 01 base box had over 129k miles. i got her with 62k miles. she was a lease and had all the maint records. i had the oil changed every 5k miles...never race and never abused. this was my first p-car (we bought an 02 S for the wife 8 months after we got mine because we just loved them!...still do).

anyway, last year i left the office early to order some valentine's day flowers. when i started my box, i heard a noticeable ticking coming from the engine. not really loud but it was there....and it made the engine run slightly rough. i had a bad feeling and got out to inspect it. it didn't seem too bad so i got back in and revved the engine. the noise went away. i figured it was just a weird thing and tried not to think about it....the fact is that it still hung heavy in the back of my head as i drove home.

btw....she's my daily driver. 90 miles every day...30 miles highway and 60 miles freeway.

well, about 20 miles later she just seemed to lose power. i managed to get to the shoulder. however, just before i turned the key off she shut down. i got out and noticed a trail of oil. it was the IMS.

not sure if i would call it a death rattle....more of a death ticking.

just my story.

perfectlap

How many years did it take for the previous owner(s) to rack up the 62K miles before you started putting 90 miles on it a day?

What were the oil change intervals before you took it over? yearly?

Do you know if the previous owner winter-stored the car?

silverboxter

It was a lease. Previous owner got it Jul-01. Maint book shows that he had it serviced at the required milestones....every year....which was every 15k miles. I bought her Sep-05.

No reason to believe that it was winter-stored since it was bought in Beverly Hills and serviced in Beverly Hills, Pasadena, and Los Angeles. My Box has never left SoCal.

I don't have any evidence that the previous owner changed the oil in between the regular Porsche required maint intervals.

Hmmm...maybe since it was a lease, he didn't??? Could this have caused the failure? Your thoughts...

perfectlap

so the previous owner, over the course of 62K miles only changed the oil four times?

At first I thought our car might have been a low mileage car that only saw four oil changes.
But it turns out it was a fairly high mileage car that only saw four oil changes.

Not to stir up trouble, but I've read a few opinions that Mobil1 (presumably what the dealer used) is nowhere close to being good enough to sustain those sorts of intervals. You could argue that no oil could or should go that long.

Put it this way, I have a strong feeling that Porsche and its dealerships recommended oil change intervals that were insufficient, an oil that was compromised at some point due to reformulation, and they didn't warn many who were letting their cars sit for long periods that this was not at all good for the engine.
When cars came in for clutchwork they did not address the possibility that the infrequent oil changes may have started the ball rolling on bearing failure. Did the dealer examine the oil for particles or did they just fill the oil recycling tank and slap a new filter on it?

Dustin Bashaw

Mikstew,

My 06 Cayman S is doing exactly as you described in your original post. First time I heard it I was in 6th gear 70mph and put it on the floor, heard a rattle.

I took it to my Porsche mechanic, he has it now. No metal in oil, no leak, just the rattle under a load at low RPM.

Your outcome would be helpful.

Thank you in advance.
Dustin

streaydog

Read this post a while back. Video doesn't work anymore but I've read post on different places that talk about good driving habits to help Ixx thing. Driving around in the wrong gear was the biggest no no. Don't put ANY unnecessay loads on the shaft. With the chains and crank shafts pulling on the shaft, this can cause problems down the road with any bearing you have imho. These are high reving engines. Keeping the revs up above 4k after warnmed up, is a good way to drive these cars. Let the parts that are suppose to wear out with that in mind, is better. Driving habits should be talked about more. Hope all works out for the best for you.

Here is a video of a death rattle I've seen sometime ago. http://www.flickr.com/photos/7093320...in/photostream

Macster

Flooring the gas pedal in 6th gear at 70mph probably means RPMs were under 2K. That's probably just the engine reacting to too much load at too few RPMs.

Also, I hope you are filling the fuel tank with the proper grade of premium gasoline and buying from a busy station to get the freshest gasoline.

If you have been running discount gasoline with less detergents this can have the fuel system and other areas with deposits.

If you tech doesn't find anything wrong with the engine, and I suspect he won't, ask him about running a bottle or two of Techron per instructions then changing the oil/filter after.

The Techron will clean up the fuel system -- remove deposits from the injector tips mainly -- and remove deposits from intake valves and the rest of the surfaces exposed to combustion gases and improve combustion which can help the engine tolerate better low RPM high load situations.

But even so you should avoid flooring the gas pedal in 6th gear at 70mph if at all possible. While these engines are remarkable for their torque for their size -- my 2.7l engine in my 02 Boxster has remarkable tractability at low RPMs (in any gear) -- they are not big rig diesel engines.

These engines prefer a bit of RPMs. Next time you need to floor the gas pedal at 70mph in 6th, downshift to 5th or even 4th first.

Nealh

[QUOTE=mikstew;9167303]I find it interesting that there is so much talk about a "death rattle" prior to IMS bearing failure, yet throughout all of youtube, not a single video of the noise can be found. One possible explanation is that the rattle only immediately precedes failure at which time the opportunity to record it has passed.

I have seen a number of boxsters and 911s with a wide variety of rattling noises, many of which that have been purported to be IMS rattles turned out to be something completely different, including: a ticking lifter, bad input shaft bearing, and a failed dual mass flywheel.

Today, we have a new noise to add to the investigation. This rattle occurs when the car is running at a very low RPM, in gear, under acceleration. For example, any easy way to produce the rattle is in 4th gear at 20 MPH (which puts the car in the neighborhood of 400 RPM). However it is also audible if starting from 2nd gear, or 3rd gear at 10 mph, or any other driving condition causing very low RPM acceleration. The rattle is distinctively diesel-sounding and should not be confused with the standard low pitched thuds of an engine at low RPM struggling for air.

See the video below. Cameramanship is poor since I am driving, thus it is difficult to hear the rattle. The most audible sample can be heard at 1:00.

It is my belief that this noise truly is the death rattle, unlike all the other purported culprits. I welcome everyone else's thoughts or rejections of my theory.

[/QUOTERIP]

Macster

[QUOTE=Nealh;13222982]It is simply wrong to drive one of these cars in such a way RPMs are in the 400 RPM range in any gear.

If one does this while the noise the is produced is (probably) not a death rattle signaling imminent IMSB failure, it is certainly an indication of protest by the engine.

If one makes a practice of this type of usage the noise he hears can very well be the sounds of pending trouble as the engine simply isn't made/intended to operate at that low of an RPM.

Oil pressure/supply is very low and probably insufficient to provide adequate lubrication to the main/rod bearings.