November 2016 SCCA FasTrack - Boxsters / Caymans in Street Class
11-25-2016, 12:14 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
I think the grip of better tires more than offsets the weight, though, especially when the weight comes from thinks like stiffer sidewalls which complement the soft suspension on Street-class Porsches and give better performance than lighter/softer tires of similar grip despite the weight.
Tires designed to be durable enough for highway driving are often heavier than dedicated track tires; Hoosiers are awfully light compared to similar size extreme performance tires.
Tires designed to be durable enough for highway driving are often heavier than dedicated track tires; Hoosiers are awfully light compared to similar size extreme performance tires.
For instance, if I ran the 285-18 in the rear, wouldnt I still want the 245-17 in front for weight and diameter reasons? I figure an 18 inch wheel in back will be at least 2 lbs heavier, plus 4 lbs of tire, so That's 6 lbs min of extra unsprung weight, maybe more. If we can't fix the front grip limitation, the extra width at the rear is wasted.
It'll look cool, however.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
Saturday week I'll be autocrossing an S2000 in BS and Sunday an STU 350Z. Last events of the season in these parts.
11-25-2016, 02:35 PM
#32
Intermediate
reason I think I would run the 17"rims are for weight, I have a Set of Kenisis from my 968 days that
are 4 pound each lighter that my 18" carrera's . had not looked at the weight of the tires yet.
as to Exhaust I had run a system that basicly that ran from the cats out the back. It was made of Inconel, and weighed 4 lbs.
the stock muffler is 40 LBs. the race weight of the 2000 S was 2907with stereo upgrade and a stock exhaust. the 550 "S" was 2922
with the BB exhaust. I figure with removal of door speakers and install a new Inconel exhaust I could get weight to 2860.
Dyno Figure for the 2000 had us getting 232 hp at the wheels. the 2004 550 got 238 at the wheels.
with the light exhaust it was 242, picked up 4 hp.
sound was awesome, but under the noise limits.
I would not Run one with PSM. it will turn back on in the heat of the moment. ;(
I do feel it will be a fight but one that need to be fought.
Rob Falkner
are 4 pound each lighter that my 18" carrera's . had not looked at the weight of the tires yet.
as to Exhaust I had run a system that basicly that ran from the cats out the back. It was made of Inconel, and weighed 4 lbs.
the stock muffler is 40 LBs. the race weight of the 2000 S was 2907with stereo upgrade and a stock exhaust. the 550 "S" was 2922
with the BB exhaust. I figure with removal of door speakers and install a new Inconel exhaust I could get weight to 2860.
Dyno Figure for the 2000 had us getting 232 hp at the wheels. the 2004 550 got 238 at the wheels.
with the light exhaust it was 242, picked up 4 hp.
sound was awesome, but under the noise limits.
I would not Run one with PSM. it will turn back on in the heat of the moment. ;(
I do feel it will be a fight but one that need to be fought.
Rob Falkner
11-30-2016, 07:49 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Really interesting and useful info on exhaust.
I'd probably throw a couple of Coast Fab mufflers in there to get it a little quieter, given my local noise sensitivity.
Inconel heat tolerance is great, any other reason for going with it?
I'd probably throw a couple of Coast Fab mufflers in there to get it a little quieter, given my local noise sensitivity.
Inconel heat tolerance is great, any other reason for going with it?
12-01-2016, 05:37 PM
#34
Intermediate
the Exhaust was made by My Friend Mike Bright a
Fabricator for Joe Gibbs Racing. He consulted with
their header guru and he said that Inconel would work
great. We tried different versions of the collector area,
what worked the best was actually against what we
would normally think. We had test version in mild steel
that we had a few different design collectors. during
the dyno pulls we had a design with a megaphone on
it blow off, when that happened we saw a spike in
the trace. Mike was speaking with the guys in
England making the bends about what happened
on the dyno, they said yes they have seen this in
alot of open exhaust cars. So the exhaust has
two separate outlets
Fabricator for Joe Gibbs Racing. He consulted with
their header guru and he said that Inconel would work
great. We tried different versions of the collector area,
what worked the best was actually against what we
would normally think. We had test version in mild steel
that we had a few different design collectors. during
the dyno pulls we had a design with a megaphone on
it blow off, when that happened we saw a spike in
the trace. Mike was speaking with the guys in
England making the bends about what happened
on the dyno, they said yes they have seen this in
alot of open exhaust cars. So the exhaust has
two separate outlets
12-02-2016, 10:05 AM
#35
Burning Brakes
We had test version in mild steel
that we had a few different design collectors. during
the dyno pulls we had a design with a megaphone on
it blow off, when that happened we saw a spike in
the trace. Mike was speaking with the guys in
England making the bends about what happened
on the dyno, they said yes they have seen this in
alot of open exhaust cars. So the exhaust has
two separate outlets
that we had a few different design collectors. during
the dyno pulls we had a design with a megaphone on
it blow off, when that happened we saw a spike in
the trace. Mike was speaking with the guys in
England making the bends about what happened
on the dyno, they said yes they have seen this in
alot of open exhaust cars. So the exhaust has
two separate outlets
I won't be able to dyno tune different versions, so my plan will be to simply keep one side from interfering with the other while going for weight loss.
12-12-2016, 10:48 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Anyone going to take a stab at BS?
Here's a 3.4L Boxster S with Sport Chrono (but no PASM) for <$23k. How much worse is the Boxster than a Cayman after the engines aligned?
If sport chrono isn't all that important, here's a nice looking 1 owner Cayman S for <$20k.
Here's a 3.4L Boxster S with Sport Chrono (but no PASM) for <$23k. How much worse is the Boxster than a Cayman after the engines aligned?
If sport chrono isn't all that important, here's a nice looking 1 owner Cayman S for <$20k.
12-12-2016, 11:14 AM
#38
Drifting
Anyone going to take a stab at BS?
Here's a 3.4L Boxster S with Sport Chrono (but no PASM) for <$23k. How much worse is the Boxster than a Cayman after the engines aligned?
If sport chrono isn't all that important, here's a nice looking 1 owner Cayman S for <$20k.
Here's a 3.4L Boxster S with Sport Chrono (but no PASM) for <$23k. How much worse is the Boxster than a Cayman after the engines aligned?
If sport chrono isn't all that important, here's a nice looking 1 owner Cayman S for <$20k.
12-12-2016, 12:45 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I don't know how today was the first time I learned you car was PDK. Is 2nd gear better?
How about a (likely never ordered) 987.2 base, PDK, LSD, Sport Chrono+ car?
How about a (likely never ordered) 987.2 base, PDK, LSD, Sport Chrono+ car?
12-12-2016, 01:50 PM
#40
Drifting
LSD, PASM, and Sport Chrono+ is a unicorn option package nobody ever ordered. Individually they're each a small % option on S and virtually non-existent on the base. (Consider the market demographic buying new 987... would they add expensive go-fast options to a base when a lightly optioned S is cheaper? Or buy a Cayman S configured more expensive than a 911?) There may be a few out there, you never know, but the closest I've seen are the launch edition 2009s, but those are weighed down with other rather heavy options. LSD and PASM can be retrofit, though PASM is cheaper to retrofit on 987.1 Cayman S because it was more common than on other models and the used market is better. (I started buying stuff to add PASM to mine but it's handing so well now I'm afraid I'd mess it up!) Sport Chrono is a ~$1k retrofit to add the button and enable it, but I've not yet seen anyone retrofit the wart so I don't know how feasible it is to add the wart to make it SCCA-legal. I do know virtually all the complaints about this car needing an LSD are from people that lack sport chrono; when properly set up for performance and in Sport+ mode, the e-LSD is surprisingly good and never intrusive. Of all the options, Sport Chrono is (IMHO) the only one that's an absolute must-have for autocross.
I don't think a 987.2 is going to be competitive against 987.1S, regardless of options. But if I had my 'druthers on options for an autocross/track 987, it would be a low-mile 2012 Cayman S with PDK, SC+, PASM, LSD, and low-weight everything else. Alternately, you can buy a new custom 718 with all the go-fast stuff and then sell it to me in 3-5 years
12-12-2016, 02:05 PM
#41
Pro
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I was close to pulling the trigger for an Boxster RS60 but I have a 635 HP car in the garage that I'm building for Cam now. The car has been sitting to long and I need to finish it. My son keeps telling me that I have to finish it as he doesn't want to finish it when I'm gone.
12-13-2016, 02:14 AM
#42
Ryan Clark from my region has a properly optioned Cayman S and will be giving it a shot at the California Pros next year. Ryan came in fourth at Nats in BS in 2013 and is a jacket-capable driver in my opinion, so it'll be interesting to see how he does.
If I'm remembering correctly, the Boxster had softer springs and was a smidge heavier. Who knows how much of a difference that would make though.
If I'm remembering correctly, the Boxster had softer springs and was a smidge heavier. Who knows how much of a difference that would make though.
12-13-2016, 10:55 AM
#43
Drifting
Ryan Clark from my region has a properly optioned Cayman S and will be giving it a shot at the California Pros next year. Ryan came in fourth at Nats in BS in 2013 and is a jacket-capable driver in my opinion, so it'll be interesting to see how he does.
If I'm remembering correctly, the Boxster had softer springs and was a smidge heavier. Who knows how much of a difference that would make though.
If I'm remembering correctly, the Boxster had softer springs and was a smidge heavier. Who knows how much of a difference that would make though.
For benchracing reference, I gave my "SS" Boxster S a go at the DC pro earlier this year (my first pro) and was crushed in SS, would have been just out of the trophies in AS (1.4 seconds behind Daddio), and would have won BS by over a half second. Er, well, Lex K would have won BS in his 987.1S and I would have been 0.2 behind. That was a very abnormal course, though, what with the 1/8 mile dragstrip straight off the tree. Man, that was glorious to watch, though, especially SSR which is big in DC. Z06 does the 1/8 mile roughly 7.5 compared to my 8.5, so compensating for that, Lex and my times were really good. Even with SS pax, I ended up like 24th overall index.
It's really hard to compare ProSolo times, though, because the top drivers are all sandbagging. Brian Conners was on Rival (not Rival S), for instance. Also, the GT4 was on OEM MPSS because better wheels/tires were not yet available- I think they were on RE-71R at nats. I was most definitely not sandbagging, though, I was giving it my all.
Results: https://www.scca.com/events/1981904-...ton-dc-prosolo
Last edited by sjfehr; 12-13-2016 at 11:57 AM.
12-13-2016, 12:05 PM
#45
Drifting
I've only had one event on the new wheels but didn't notice much difference. I ran freshly flipped 100-run RE-71R on that event which is usually slower; ended up coning away top pax (again), which I blame on the wheels having an extra 6mm offset. 
FYI for those who didn't see/recall my other posts, I recently bought a set of custom 8.5x18 & 10x18 Forgestars to max out SCCA's +/-1" rule; they're surprisingly affordable if anyone else is considering this route. 255/35-18 RE-71R reportedly mount MUCH easier to 8.5x18 Forgestars than 8x18 OZs, btw. But the hub rings seem to be making it difficult to get the wheel mounted right to the balancing machine which makes for bad balances and annoying vibrations that come & go during highway cruising.
FYI for those who didn't see/recall my other posts, I recently bought a set of custom 8.5x18 & 10x18 Forgestars to max out SCCA's +/-1" rule; they're surprisingly affordable if anyone else is considering this route. 255/35-18 RE-71R reportedly mount MUCH easier to 8.5x18 Forgestars than 8x18 OZs, btw. But the hub rings seem to be making it difficult to get the wheel mounted right to the balancing machine which makes for bad balances and annoying vibrations that come & go during highway cruising.