Sprockett

Thought I would separate this from the other thread for a little exposure. If the proposal goes forward for 2017, what does a real SS build for a 996 TT look like?

Clearly car to start with is an x50 option car or an S. Were there actually any optional wheels besides the 8/11 I keep seeing? Sway bar options? Would you go big rear bar instead given the AWD?

knfeparty

Sunroof delete? cdr-23, no rear wiper, manual sport seats (with painted backs matching the exterior paint, of course), or euro gt3 seats if you think that's not too "exclusive." You could even go for the XSN rear seat delete if you were really crazy.

I would go with the bigger rear bar. Does MCS make remote reservoir adjustables that would accept the x73 springs, assuming for a second we believe the x73 springs are legal?

PedalFaster

You can do anything with enough dollars -- lots of people in Street running fancy monotube shocks with adapters to fit stock springs.

I think one of the key things would be to lose weight. Find out what the theoretical minimal spec 996 Turbo would look like, then replace all the heavy parts (power leather seats, powerful stereo, etc.) with light ones.

jpgunn

X50 -- 44HP -- different Turbos, Intercoolers and ECU MAP
X73 -- Stiffer springs than GT2 and 20mm lower than stock (same as GT2) plus Stiffer Engine Mounts (GT2)
711 -- No underbody protection (Save weight)
XSN -- Omission of rear seats

Would change the rear bar to a stiffer adjustable bar (I think that is OK in the rules now for Stock -- in the past it was just the front allowed).

MechanicalEng

Only options available in the USA and from the factory are legal for any SCCA street class, options can NOT be "dealer installed" so no Euro buckets, X73 or rear seat delete.
I own an ASP K16 car but have driven K24s and for AX I prefer a K16 car, better throttle response and less lag down low.
For me, the ideal 996TT would be a bare bones k16 with Aero Kit, PCCBs and manual sport seats. Then max out front camber and add a bit of toe out, a free flowing cat back. I would have to test which sway would be more beneficial (F or R?).
Besides the poor handling and the weight the other issue with the 996TT is the tire selection, there is absolutely nothing competitive in "awd friendly" sizes, the tire to have (B71R) is not available in 295 or 285...
With stock suspension it will be tricky to fit anything over 235/245 at the front, the car desperately needs more front tire.

PedalFaster

There was a clarification earlier this year indicating that Porsche Exclusive options (presumably including, but not necessarily limited to, options with codes starting with X) are legal in Street since they could theoretically have been ordered from the factory via the Porsche Exclusive program.

The challenge would be to demonstrate that the were orderable in the U.S., but you'd theoretically only need to introduce "reasonable doubt" to survive a protest.

knfeparty

This really is a conundrum. It's like the bigfoot argument...if you could have ordered it to the US, certainly we would have seen one...but there's no way to prove that you couldn't have ordered them. I'm very conflicted on this one. Even with all the exclusive stuff you could want, we still wouldn't have any cars that would be unfair in their class.

The photos of the 40th with the XSF/XSE/XSN euro GT3 seats and rear seat delete and corresponding option sticker come to mind for "reasonable doubt."

knfeparty

Clearly you haven't seen the 255s and 315s I fit on my NA! You just have to go with BFGs in the back (for now)

PedalFaster

Yep. Again, the bar is not that a car was ordered with the equipment, but rather that a car could have been ordered with the equipment. This has happened before; as far as anyone can tell, no one actually ordered a second generation Toyota MR2 in North America with ABS and no T-tops, but that was the hot configuration for ES autocross for many years.

Arguably the people screwed the most by this ruling are the people who want to campaign Porsches. People who ran the aforementioned MR2s cobbled together Frankenstein cars from parts they ordered from Toyota; likewise, to build an optimal Porsche now, you need to acquire all of the good Exclusive options and install them on your car at presumably horrendous expense.

knfeparty

Back of the napkin, assuming you start with a 40th or turbo that alread has x50/51
X74 springs: $1800
Used euro gt3 seats: $3000
Rear seat delete: free? Isn't there like a shelf or emblem or something?
Sunroof delete: $400 roof skin, headliner cost unknown, install and paint at least a $1000


I personally would keep the underbody protection for cones!

MechanicalEng

knfeparty: I have seen 255s in the front of NA 996's I ran a 2002 C2 for a few years like that, keep in mind that the front suspension of the TT is different to the C2s.
The rubbing is not the only issue, also the fact that the radius of the front and rear tires have to be within 2% makes the choices VERY limited.
- I saw at Nats a few years ago a 996 GT3 get bumped from SS to ASP because it had the euro buckets, the argument is, and has always been that you could NOT order those seats on an US delivered car, the car was not crash tested with those seats and on top of that they are not even DOT.
- The same thing applies to the X73/74, I am not sure if X74 was a US option on C2s (only came standard in the 40th). For 996TTs it was not, even the TTS has the same regular SUV suspension.
- The rear seat delete I am 99% sure it was not an US option, the car was classed in the USA as a 4 seater only, this was done due to US Insurance regulations, the premiums for a 2 seater car are higher.
- The sunroof delete I know for a fact it was an US option on 996Turbos from 2002-on. Retrofitting a non sunroof roof will cost a lot of $$ Using Porsche parts (you must as per SCCA rules) when I priced it myself, the headliner alone was over $2k, the new roof and removing/rewelding the old roof is a major job. For the cost of this retrofit (about $10-12k) you could get about 5yrs of tires. The Cost/Benefit just makes no sense.

Dont get me wrong, I think a lot of these rules and classing disparities are BS and I am tired too of Porsches getting classed poorly/unfairly no matter how many letters we send with valid arguments...

knfeparty

^^

Thanks for sharing the experiences. I didn't think about the tire limitations of the AWD system.

The DOT aspect is a good example of how one could provide evidence that the euro gt3 seats, despite being factory-orderable for sure, couldn't be factory-installed and delivered to the US. The XSN rear seat delete probably follows this logic too.

That aside, I wonder if the SS to ASP bump for euro gt3 seats example that happened a few years ago would still happen today with the "clarification" that exclusive options are legal.

Also, fyi, the 40ths didn't come with x74, just the much tamer US m030. If any X option is worth having, it's the XSF/XSE euro gt3 seats and the x74 springs. I think the whole DOT aspect pretty much nixes the seats, but I don't know how one would prove the x74 springs were illegal, unless again you went with DOT bumper height restrictions, which I doubt the x74 meet.