Good discussion on wheels, tires and other performance mods - great for newbs
07-04-2007, 01:47 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Good discussion on wheels, tires and other performance mods - great for newbs
****Since I originally posted this thread, I've made suspension, wheel and tire upgrades to my car. Scroll down for reviews and pics.****
I'm in the process of buying new wheels/tires and have been doing a significant amount of research both here on RL and other forums/sites. I had communication with another RL member who provided excellent advice and with his permission, I'd like to make that info public for the benefit of others. Here's part of my communication with Ted, aka Dr. Car:
I WROTE:
Hi Ted,
I'm looking for new tires so serve double duty (street/AX). I may also do my first DE this year.
So far, I'm very happy with PS2s, especially in the rain, but there's always room for performance improvement. The Azenis seem to be getting rave reviews for AX. The most negative comment I've come across on the Azenis is the weight, which I'm still trying to figure out what it is. What's your take?
I have a 98 C4S and I'm just about to pull the trigger on a set of Volks 18 x 9/11. Tires would be 245/315. I live in Vancouver so I need good performance in the rain.
I've come across a few of your posts and you seem to know your stuff. I'd appreciate your input.
Cheers,
Louis
TED REPLIED:
The Volks are such an excellent choice, because they are very light and they are relatively cheap compared to other light rims made for Porsches.
A light tire is better than a heavy tire, but some heavy tires work fantastically b/c all that weight provides a stiff carcass and quick responses. It's not like wheels where you should be guided largely by weight in seeking your competitive advantage. Wheels gain no performance advantage by being heavy, they just get cheaper and stronger. A heavy tire is fine as long as its grip outweighs the detriment caused by its weight. The tires I describe below may be heavy but they work very well. Weight of the Azenis should be available on Falken's website, under the specs they have online.
As for tires, I think your choices are limited by the 315 size. I think the two best dry weather autocross street tires, the Bridgestone RE-01R and the Yokohama Advan Neova AD-07, aren't made nearly that large. The AD-07 is excellent in the rain, too, but I haven't driven the RE-01R in wet conditions; but I believe it's a safe tire in the rain. SCCA Forums probably has the scoop on how good the RE-01R is in the rain compared to other tires.
Tires that are stickier in the dry than the PS2 and are made in the wide rear size you want are the Falken Azenis RT-615 and the BF Goodrich T/A KD. I don't recommend the BFG for you because it's lousy in the rain compared to the PS2 which you're accustomed to. The Falken is merely OK in the rain but would outshine the PS2 quite a bit in a dry or less-than-standing-water autocross or track day. Falkens are also well priced.
I don't know how much you'll benefit from a 245/315 split. What is OEM on the car, 225/285? Consider the handling balance you have right now. What are the car's faults? Have you adjusted the alignment and any suspension variables to get the car neutral so it can be drifted slightly through corners, without excessive understeer or oversteer?
I find that most cars inherently understeer, and your C4S may be that way because of the AWD and extra front axle weight. Thus, you might have better handling balance with a front tire that's 245 or 235 coupled with a 285 or 295 rear. I'd have to drive your car to have an opinion. If your car already understeers and you put a 315 on the back, it may get worse.
Look at the available sizes for the Azenis on Falken's website and the RE-01R and AD-07 on the TireRack website, and check out the specs for section width (contact patch on the ground) and tread width. Some tires are wider for the same stated width than other tires. When you look at those stats, also look at the measured rim width which is the width of the wheel the tire was mounted on when these measurements were taken. You need to consider that to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Be aware that even if you were comparing the same model of tire, a 315/30 will not plant 30mm more tire on the ground than a 285/30 if they are both mounted on an 11" rim. A 315/30 on an 11" will probably plant a 1/2" less tire on the ground than if it were on a 12" rim. And tires tend to behave a little better (more predictable, more responsive) when they are on a wheel that's at the upper end of the recommended wheel fitment range - the range is also in the spec sheets. You can actually exceed the recommended fitment range, but that's a topic for another discussion.
Finally, consider your gearing. To do this, look at overall diameter or revs/mile statistics under the spec sheets. IIRC, the Falken only provides diameter and not revs/mile, whereas TireRack has both specs for most tires. The percentage change in diameter will have a direct and equal percentage change on your gearing. Thus, a 24" diameter tire would shorten your gearing by 4% compared to a 25" tire. Your 315 is going to make your gearing taller compared to the OEM 285, which will decrease your effective torque and acceleration, and throw off your speedometer a bit, while it will probably give you slightly better MPG on the highway. It will also raise the ride height of your rear axle, by about 9mm.
As you can see, the 315 has some drawbacks. I wonder if a 235/40 and 295/30 Yokohama AD-07 might not be a great combo on those Volks. They'd plant on the ground so well on those wide Volks, and that is a very fun tire to drive with great feedback and it does very well in wet conditions.
Look at the specs for the tires I recommend, consider and compare them. How much narrower is a 235 AD-07 than a 245 Azenis? Is its section or tread width really much less? Keep in mind the AD-07 is a little grippier anyway. Consider whether you could stand the increase ride height and taller gearing of the 315, think about your present handling balance and whether you want a bigger front to rear stagger than the car already has, and consider the prices of the various tires.
Realize that different tires like different pressures, and different operating temperatures. Get a pyrometer if you don't have one, and adjust pressures at the track in an effort to achieve even temperatures for the outside, middle and inside of each tire. Bleed some air after a couple runs if needed, b/c pressures go up as tire and wheel temps rise.
Good luck and have fun. Let me know if you have more questions. Maybe keep notes on this topic and then make a post to report your findings once you have some experience with the new wheel/tire combo.
- Ted
I'm in the process of buying new wheels/tires and have been doing a significant amount of research both here on RL and other forums/sites. I had communication with another RL member who provided excellent advice and with his permission, I'd like to make that info public for the benefit of others. Here's part of my communication with Ted, aka Dr. Car:
I WROTE:
Hi Ted,
I'm looking for new tires so serve double duty (street/AX). I may also do my first DE this year.
So far, I'm very happy with PS2s, especially in the rain, but there's always room for performance improvement. The Azenis seem to be getting rave reviews for AX. The most negative comment I've come across on the Azenis is the weight, which I'm still trying to figure out what it is. What's your take?
I have a 98 C4S and I'm just about to pull the trigger on a set of Volks 18 x 9/11. Tires would be 245/315. I live in Vancouver so I need good performance in the rain.
I've come across a few of your posts and you seem to know your stuff. I'd appreciate your input.
Cheers,
Louis
TED REPLIED:
The Volks are such an excellent choice, because they are very light and they are relatively cheap compared to other light rims made for Porsches.
A light tire is better than a heavy tire, but some heavy tires work fantastically b/c all that weight provides a stiff carcass and quick responses. It's not like wheels where you should be guided largely by weight in seeking your competitive advantage. Wheels gain no performance advantage by being heavy, they just get cheaper and stronger. A heavy tire is fine as long as its grip outweighs the detriment caused by its weight. The tires I describe below may be heavy but they work very well. Weight of the Azenis should be available on Falken's website, under the specs they have online.
As for tires, I think your choices are limited by the 315 size. I think the two best dry weather autocross street tires, the Bridgestone RE-01R and the Yokohama Advan Neova AD-07, aren't made nearly that large. The AD-07 is excellent in the rain, too, but I haven't driven the RE-01R in wet conditions; but I believe it's a safe tire in the rain. SCCA Forums probably has the scoop on how good the RE-01R is in the rain compared to other tires.
Tires that are stickier in the dry than the PS2 and are made in the wide rear size you want are the Falken Azenis RT-615 and the BF Goodrich T/A KD. I don't recommend the BFG for you because it's lousy in the rain compared to the PS2 which you're accustomed to. The Falken is merely OK in the rain but would outshine the PS2 quite a bit in a dry or less-than-standing-water autocross or track day. Falkens are also well priced.
I don't know how much you'll benefit from a 245/315 split. What is OEM on the car, 225/285? Consider the handling balance you have right now. What are the car's faults? Have you adjusted the alignment and any suspension variables to get the car neutral so it can be drifted slightly through corners, without excessive understeer or oversteer?
I find that most cars inherently understeer, and your C4S may be that way because of the AWD and extra front axle weight. Thus, you might have better handling balance with a front tire that's 245 or 235 coupled with a 285 or 295 rear. I'd have to drive your car to have an opinion. If your car already understeers and you put a 315 on the back, it may get worse.
Look at the available sizes for the Azenis on Falken's website and the RE-01R and AD-07 on the TireRack website, and check out the specs for section width (contact patch on the ground) and tread width. Some tires are wider for the same stated width than other tires. When you look at those stats, also look at the measured rim width which is the width of the wheel the tire was mounted on when these measurements were taken. You need to consider that to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Be aware that even if you were comparing the same model of tire, a 315/30 will not plant 30mm more tire on the ground than a 285/30 if they are both mounted on an 11" rim. A 315/30 on an 11" will probably plant a 1/2" less tire on the ground than if it were on a 12" rim. And tires tend to behave a little better (more predictable, more responsive) when they are on a wheel that's at the upper end of the recommended wheel fitment range - the range is also in the spec sheets. You can actually exceed the recommended fitment range, but that's a topic for another discussion.
Finally, consider your gearing. To do this, look at overall diameter or revs/mile statistics under the spec sheets. IIRC, the Falken only provides diameter and not revs/mile, whereas TireRack has both specs for most tires. The percentage change in diameter will have a direct and equal percentage change on your gearing. Thus, a 24" diameter tire would shorten your gearing by 4% compared to a 25" tire. Your 315 is going to make your gearing taller compared to the OEM 285, which will decrease your effective torque and acceleration, and throw off your speedometer a bit, while it will probably give you slightly better MPG on the highway. It will also raise the ride height of your rear axle, by about 9mm.
As you can see, the 315 has some drawbacks. I wonder if a 235/40 and 295/30 Yokohama AD-07 might not be a great combo on those Volks. They'd plant on the ground so well on those wide Volks, and that is a very fun tire to drive with great feedback and it does very well in wet conditions.
Look at the specs for the tires I recommend, consider and compare them. How much narrower is a 235 AD-07 than a 245 Azenis? Is its section or tread width really much less? Keep in mind the AD-07 is a little grippier anyway. Consider whether you could stand the increase ride height and taller gearing of the 315, think about your present handling balance and whether you want a bigger front to rear stagger than the car already has, and consider the prices of the various tires.
Realize that different tires like different pressures, and different operating temperatures. Get a pyrometer if you don't have one, and adjust pressures at the track in an effort to achieve even temperatures for the outside, middle and inside of each tire. Bleed some air after a couple runs if needed, b/c pressures go up as tire and wheel temps rise.
Good luck and have fun. Let me know if you have more questions. Maybe keep notes on this topic and then make a post to report your findings once you have some experience with the new wheel/tire combo.
- Ted
Last edited by Wilder; 08-28-2007 at 02:51 PM.
07-04-2007, 02:02 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Follow up communication. My email is in small caps while Ted's is in italic large caps:
Wow Ted, what a fantastic response. Thank you very much for your thoroughness, thoughtfulness and time.
THANKS, THAT'S FLATTERING!
Thanks for confirming that I've found the right wheels. I found your comments about tire weight interesting since my newbie focus was just simply on reducing unsprung weight, but as with anything, compromises have to be made when you start narrowing your focus on things. My other rookie mistake might have been a focus on simply increasing tire patch, especially since I've got AWD, to optimize traction. Right idea but seemingly oversimplified and I appreciate your comments and input in that regard.
THERE ARE A LOT OF NUANCES TO CAR PERFORMANCE. CARS HAVE COMPLICATED SYSTEMS AND THAT'S WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN MODIFY THEIR CARS AND JUST MAKE THEM SLOWER.
I'm going to do more homework on this based on your suggestions and will get back to you with my findings and decisions. I like what I’ve read so far about Azenis from other autocrossers. What’s holding me back from pulling the trigger is that they don’t seem to have great performance in the wet and it rains here a lot. Naturally, 90% of my driving will be on the street as a DD. Also, seemingly they tend to get greasy after about 20mins, which may not have a big impact on my use but I’d hate to go for a three hour spirited drive and have those kinds of attributes come into play. Cost is something that I also need to take into account, which is another reason I like the Azenis, but if I do in fact lower the size of the tires, it might help with reducing cost and open up my options. So far, there's a difference of about $450 between a set of PS2s and the Azenis in the 245/315s. IIRC, Advans are close in price to the PS2s.
THE AZENIS IS A GREAT TIRE, PARTICULARLY FOR THE MONEY. IT IS MORE HEAT SENSITIVE THAN SOME TIRES, BUT THE NEW 615 MODEL IS MUCH LESS HEAT SENSITIVE THAN THE OLD 215 WAS. AS A DD, THE AZENIS IS A SAFE RAIN TIRE, JUST NOT REAL GOOD LIKE THE ADVAN OR PS-2 WOULD BE. DO YOU DRIVE HARD IN THE RAIN, OR IS YOUR CONCERN JUST HAVING A BIG PERFORMANCE ENVELOPE FOR BRAKING AND UNEXPECTED SITUATIONS? I THINK THE AZENIS HAS ENOUGH PERFORMANCE IN THE RAIN IF YOU DRIVE CONSERVATIVELY WHEN IT'S WET, BUT IF YOU LIKE TO EXPLORE WET TRACTION LIMITS I BET THAT'S NOT THE TIRE. WHEN I HAD AN AWD PERFORMANCE CAR I LIKED DRIFTING IT AROUND A LITTLE IN THE WET, BUT I WENT THE OTHER WAY AND GOT REALLY GREAT DRY PERFORMANCE TIRES THAT WERE BAD IN THE RAIN -- THE YOKOHAMA AOO8RSII's, BACK IN ABOUT 1990. SINCE THEN I HAD A MITSUBISHI EVO VIII, AND RAN GOOD RAIN TIRES ON IT (YOKO A048's) AND DIDN'T MANAGE TO SLIDE IT AROUND MUCH IN THE WET, BUT I'M PROBABLY MORE CONSERVATIVE (READ "SAFER") IN MY DRIVING HABITS THAN I USED TO BE.
I've only had the car a few weeks and the alignment worked well until I decided to change the standard twist wheels to OE 997 Sport Designs with 235/195 19s. The car looks great and I did this purely for aesthetics thinking that I’d get a dedicated set for track but after a few days, I'm now realizing it was just a momentary lapse of reason since these cars are more about how they feel than what they look like. Hence my move to put these wheels for sale (twists are already gone) and get one set of Volks with street/track tires. I think getting two sets of wheels right now might be overkill for me in both cost and need. I also think it's important to get to know the car and improve my skills organically and that means using the same tires on the street and track. Introducing too many variables right now might start playing tricks on my muscle memory.
19's ARE AWFUL. I HAVE SEVERAL SETS FOR MY 997 CAR BECAUSE THE TAKEOFFS WERE CHEAPER THAN NEW TIRES ALONE, BUT I WOULD NEVER RETROFIT THOSE HEAVY, TALL MONSTERS TO AN EARLIER CHASSIS.
I AGREE YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH ONE SET OF WHEELS FOR NOW. A GREAT STREET TIRE WILL GET THE JOB DONE ON THE TRACK. IN FACT I'VE ONLY GOT STREET TIRES FOR MY CAR RIGHT NOW (PS-2s AND P-ZEROs). KEEP IT SIMPLE AND YOU ARE RIGHT, REDUCE THE VARIABLES. THE ONLY OTHER THING IS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE GOOD ALIGNMENT SETTINGS - RESEARCH WHAT A GOOD STREET/TRACK COMPROMISE IS FOR YOUR CAR IN TERMS OF CAMBER AND TOE SETTINGS.
After I get the new wheels, I'm planning on getting an alignment since I'm going to swap suspension. I've got the euro RoW Sport which works very well (though the shocks are still Monroe) but my fiancé’s car's (96 C4S) suspension is shot so I'm going to put my suspension on her car and put a set of PSS9s that I've picked up for my car, and yes, I know I should've gone with Motons but I got the PSS9s used from a friend for $1100.
I'M GLAD YOU'RE NOT GETTING MOTONS. WHILE I'M NO FAN OF BILSTEIN, THEIR PORSCHE PSS9 KITS ARE HIGHLY REGARDED. YOU COULD EASILY GET MOTONS, NOT DIAL THEM IN RIGHT, AND GO SLOWER. ALSO YOU WILL GO FASTER IF YOU USE THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE TO DO TRACK DAYS AND BUY ANOTHER SET OF TIRES ONCE YOUR FIRST SET WEARS OUT. DON'T GET TOO EQUIPMENT INTENSIVE, AND FOCUS MORE ON YOUR SKILLS THAN ON WHAT COOL RACE BITS YOUR CAR HAS. I CAN TELL YOU HAVE THE MODIFICATION ITCH LIKE I ONCE DID/STILL DO.
I think your response provided for one of the best sources of information on this forum as far as addressing my question, which is one that I came across often during my research. Would you mind if I post it on a new thread to share with the rest?
SURE, GO AHEAD.
Thanks again and I'll be in touch.
GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN, SAFELY!
Regards,
Louis
Wow Ted, what a fantastic response. Thank you very much for your thoroughness, thoughtfulness and time.
THANKS, THAT'S FLATTERING!
Thanks for confirming that I've found the right wheels. I found your comments about tire weight interesting since my newbie focus was just simply on reducing unsprung weight, but as with anything, compromises have to be made when you start narrowing your focus on things. My other rookie mistake might have been a focus on simply increasing tire patch, especially since I've got AWD, to optimize traction. Right idea but seemingly oversimplified and I appreciate your comments and input in that regard.
THERE ARE A LOT OF NUANCES TO CAR PERFORMANCE. CARS HAVE COMPLICATED SYSTEMS AND THAT'S WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN MODIFY THEIR CARS AND JUST MAKE THEM SLOWER.
I'm going to do more homework on this based on your suggestions and will get back to you with my findings and decisions. I like what I’ve read so far about Azenis from other autocrossers. What’s holding me back from pulling the trigger is that they don’t seem to have great performance in the wet and it rains here a lot. Naturally, 90% of my driving will be on the street as a DD. Also, seemingly they tend to get greasy after about 20mins, which may not have a big impact on my use but I’d hate to go for a three hour spirited drive and have those kinds of attributes come into play. Cost is something that I also need to take into account, which is another reason I like the Azenis, but if I do in fact lower the size of the tires, it might help with reducing cost and open up my options. So far, there's a difference of about $450 between a set of PS2s and the Azenis in the 245/315s. IIRC, Advans are close in price to the PS2s.
THE AZENIS IS A GREAT TIRE, PARTICULARLY FOR THE MONEY. IT IS MORE HEAT SENSITIVE THAN SOME TIRES, BUT THE NEW 615 MODEL IS MUCH LESS HEAT SENSITIVE THAN THE OLD 215 WAS. AS A DD, THE AZENIS IS A SAFE RAIN TIRE, JUST NOT REAL GOOD LIKE THE ADVAN OR PS-2 WOULD BE. DO YOU DRIVE HARD IN THE RAIN, OR IS YOUR CONCERN JUST HAVING A BIG PERFORMANCE ENVELOPE FOR BRAKING AND UNEXPECTED SITUATIONS? I THINK THE AZENIS HAS ENOUGH PERFORMANCE IN THE RAIN IF YOU DRIVE CONSERVATIVELY WHEN IT'S WET, BUT IF YOU LIKE TO EXPLORE WET TRACTION LIMITS I BET THAT'S NOT THE TIRE. WHEN I HAD AN AWD PERFORMANCE CAR I LIKED DRIFTING IT AROUND A LITTLE IN THE WET, BUT I WENT THE OTHER WAY AND GOT REALLY GREAT DRY PERFORMANCE TIRES THAT WERE BAD IN THE RAIN -- THE YOKOHAMA AOO8RSII's, BACK IN ABOUT 1990. SINCE THEN I HAD A MITSUBISHI EVO VIII, AND RAN GOOD RAIN TIRES ON IT (YOKO A048's) AND DIDN'T MANAGE TO SLIDE IT AROUND MUCH IN THE WET, BUT I'M PROBABLY MORE CONSERVATIVE (READ "SAFER") IN MY DRIVING HABITS THAN I USED TO BE.
I've only had the car a few weeks and the alignment worked well until I decided to change the standard twist wheels to OE 997 Sport Designs with 235/195 19s. The car looks great and I did this purely for aesthetics thinking that I’d get a dedicated set for track but after a few days, I'm now realizing it was just a momentary lapse of reason since these cars are more about how they feel than what they look like. Hence my move to put these wheels for sale (twists are already gone) and get one set of Volks with street/track tires. I think getting two sets of wheels right now might be overkill for me in both cost and need. I also think it's important to get to know the car and improve my skills organically and that means using the same tires on the street and track. Introducing too many variables right now might start playing tricks on my muscle memory.
19's ARE AWFUL. I HAVE SEVERAL SETS FOR MY 997 CAR BECAUSE THE TAKEOFFS WERE CHEAPER THAN NEW TIRES ALONE, BUT I WOULD NEVER RETROFIT THOSE HEAVY, TALL MONSTERS TO AN EARLIER CHASSIS.
I AGREE YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH ONE SET OF WHEELS FOR NOW. A GREAT STREET TIRE WILL GET THE JOB DONE ON THE TRACK. IN FACT I'VE ONLY GOT STREET TIRES FOR MY CAR RIGHT NOW (PS-2s AND P-ZEROs). KEEP IT SIMPLE AND YOU ARE RIGHT, REDUCE THE VARIABLES. THE ONLY OTHER THING IS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE GOOD ALIGNMENT SETTINGS - RESEARCH WHAT A GOOD STREET/TRACK COMPROMISE IS FOR YOUR CAR IN TERMS OF CAMBER AND TOE SETTINGS.
After I get the new wheels, I'm planning on getting an alignment since I'm going to swap suspension. I've got the euro RoW Sport which works very well (though the shocks are still Monroe) but my fiancé’s car's (96 C4S) suspension is shot so I'm going to put my suspension on her car and put a set of PSS9s that I've picked up for my car, and yes, I know I should've gone with Motons but I got the PSS9s used from a friend for $1100.
I'M GLAD YOU'RE NOT GETTING MOTONS. WHILE I'M NO FAN OF BILSTEIN, THEIR PORSCHE PSS9 KITS ARE HIGHLY REGARDED. YOU COULD EASILY GET MOTONS, NOT DIAL THEM IN RIGHT, AND GO SLOWER. ALSO YOU WILL GO FASTER IF YOU USE THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE TO DO TRACK DAYS AND BUY ANOTHER SET OF TIRES ONCE YOUR FIRST SET WEARS OUT. DON'T GET TOO EQUIPMENT INTENSIVE, AND FOCUS MORE ON YOUR SKILLS THAN ON WHAT COOL RACE BITS YOUR CAR HAS. I CAN TELL YOU HAVE THE MODIFICATION ITCH LIKE I ONCE DID/STILL DO.
I think your response provided for one of the best sources of information on this forum as far as addressing my question, which is one that I came across often during my research. Would you mind if I post it on a new thread to share with the rest?
SURE, GO AHEAD.
Thanks again and I'll be in touch.
GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN, SAFELY!
Regards,
Louis
07-04-2007, 02:07 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
FYI, I have no affiliation, interest or otherwise with any tire or wheel company nor do I belive Ted does.
Last edited by Wilder; 07-04-2007 at 02:42 PM.
07-04-2007, 09:55 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by kabel_Boxster
Great easy to read write-up for those new to the sport, Thanks Ted & Louis.Agreed, good stuff.
...oughta' consider some Hoosiers.
07-04-2007, 10:45 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Please thank Ted, I just asked the questions. Right now, I'm steering toward CCW wheels in 18 x 9/11 with Azenis 615s in 255/315s.
07-05-2007, 12:02 AM
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Hey Louis, Al here from the local PCA autox gang. 
Are there any concerns with the awd setup or ABS with the different tire diameter of the Falkens when compared to stock sizes your car came with? I know with my car if I go too big in the rear then the ABS gets upset, thinking there is constant slipping or something like that.
BTW, one of these days when the autox sessions start running again you can use my pyrometer to set up the tire pressures. It's part of my autox/track supply kit now so I always have it with me.
Oh yeah, when you're at the track for a DE event, check your pressures after each run and bleed them down to the proper levels each time. Use a quality tire pressure gauge, not a cheap one. You want a good valve stem fit and it's nice if it has a fast bleed button on it. I'm using a Longacre tire pressure gauge now and I love it. Works great!
Cheers,
Are there any concerns with the awd setup or ABS with the different tire diameter of the Falkens when compared to stock sizes your car came with? I know with my car if I go too big in the rear then the ABS gets upset, thinking there is constant slipping or something like that.
BTW, one of these days when the autox sessions start running again you can use my pyrometer to set up the tire pressures. It's part of my autox/track supply kit now so I always have it with me.
Oh yeah, when you're at the track for a DE event, check your pressures after each run and bleed them down to the proper levels each time. Use a quality tire pressure gauge, not a cheap one. You want a good valve stem fit and it's nice if it has a fast bleed button on it. I'm using a Longacre tire pressure gauge now and I love it. Works great!
Cheers,
Trending Topics
07-05-2007, 01:48 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Alan, long time no see. I've been thinking about chiming you re. your wheels as I'm now thinking of going with CCWs.
I've been doing quite a bit of homework on the VC and ABS issues and I don't think there'll be any. The OE PS2s have a OD of 25.1F and 25R where as the Azenis are 25.6 on both. From what I've researched so far, what's important is to keep the OD of fronts and rears as close as possible and ideally to have a slightly smaller tire in the rear so long as the OD is not greater than 4% over OE specs. I don't think it'll be an issue. Nevertheless, I've just posted here and hopefully I'll get some good feedback.
Thanks for the tips. Did you ever get your CCWs refinished? I was thinking of getting the hyper black finish on them if I do in fact get them. I'm trying to get CCW to finish them for me but they're not setup for it.
I've been doing quite a bit of homework on the VC and ABS issues and I don't think there'll be any. The OE PS2s have a OD of 25.1F and 25R where as the Azenis are 25.6 on both. From what I've researched so far, what's important is to keep the OD of fronts and rears as close as possible and ideally to have a slightly smaller tire in the rear so long as the OD is not greater than 4% over OE specs. I don't think it'll be an issue. Nevertheless, I've just posted here and hopefully I'll get some good feedback.
Thanks for the tips. Did you ever get your CCWs refinished? I was thinking of getting the hyper black finish on them if I do in fact get them. I'm trying to get CCW to finish them for me but they're not setup for it.
07-05-2007, 06:16 PM
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Hey Louis,
Good to hear about the VC/ABS issues.
I decided to skip the refinishing. CNC marks and some oxidation under the anodizing (behind the spokes) are adding "character" to them for now.
I'm not sure what I'll do. I might leave them alone long-term since they have a cool look to them.
Cheers,
Good to hear about the VC/ABS issues.
I decided to skip the refinishing. CNC marks and some oxidation under the anodizing (behind the spokes) are adding "character" to them for now.
I'm not sure what I'll do. I might leave them alone long-term since they have a cool look to them.Cheers,
08-28-2007, 12:37 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
After a month and 1,500 mi on new suspension, wheels and tires, I thought I'd chime with the reviews.
I went with CCW C14s rims in 18x9 ET48 and 18x11 ET38 and Falken Azenis 615s in 245F and 315R. I also installed PSS9s at RS height and RoW TT sways. Camber is set at -2 front and -1.75 rear with very little toe out in the front and very little toe in in the rear and as much caster as they were able to dial out with these settings.
I've driven about 800 mi on the freeway in two trips, 75% of which was in rain and most of it of the torrential variety. The balance was street and one AX. Here's the review:
Tires:
Phenomenally sticky and work surprisingly well in wet. I'm sure the size has something to do with not being able to break them sideways. I've never driven in a car with R comps but I can only imagine they are but a hair stickier than these. Downside is noise and weight, but that's the price you pay for stiff walls and aggressive patterns. I was blown away at the performance on the wet. On the highway, the tires felt nearly as confident as PS2s except that I did cross a couple of water patches during a downpour when I felt the car hydroplaning a bit, though given the conditions, I can't see any tire staying planted on the road. I did 4 autocross runs in the wet and 4 in dry, relatively warm conditions (temperamental BC weather) and performance was yet again stellar.
Wheels:
These are absolutely beautiful wheels and I love the fact that I can customize my own sizes and spacing. The CNC machining gives a very industrial/mechanical look and the design has a very aggressive appearance right down to the lack of wheel caps. At $2500, I don't know what could beat these. As for sizes, I went with these because I'm experimenting and they give me the flexibility to go down in size to 235/295 and have them on the outside of the size limit, which would offer great feedback.
Alignment and Suspension:
I won't go much into this here since it's already been discussed many times. What I want to contribute is that the variance between the front and rear camber make the car feel totally balanced on my 4S. During autocross, the car never oversteered or understeered despite some tight turns. The slight to out makes the car track just a tad on the street but gives fantastic turn-in, which is helpful when you've got so much tire in the front. Setting 7 on PSS9s work great on the street and the track, though I do plan to start playing with the settings as I do more AX.
I'm very grateful to Danny, Ted and everyone else who posted on RL on alignment specs, offsets and tire reviews. I spent numerous hours doing research to arrive at what I believe to be a great setup. The results speak for themselves. I'm a newb with only 6 AX events under my belt and have never done DE or track. I've had instruction from Danny (DJF1) and he's very kind but I know I've got a way to go before I get truly proficient. Despite my limitations, this past weekend I got the best time in my class and got my time within less than 1 second of a 7GT3 RS and a 6GT3 (both running street tires) which I think speaks volumes about the setup. I hope this helps someone else as much as others' posts and input have helped me.
I went with CCW C14s rims in 18x9 ET48 and 18x11 ET38 and Falken Azenis 615s in 245F and 315R. I also installed PSS9s at RS height and RoW TT sways. Camber is set at -2 front and -1.75 rear with very little toe out in the front and very little toe in in the rear and as much caster as they were able to dial out with these settings.
I've driven about 800 mi on the freeway in two trips, 75% of which was in rain and most of it of the torrential variety. The balance was street and one AX. Here's the review:
Tires:
Phenomenally sticky and work surprisingly well in wet. I'm sure the size has something to do with not being able to break them sideways. I've never driven in a car with R comps but I can only imagine they are but a hair stickier than these. Downside is noise and weight, but that's the price you pay for stiff walls and aggressive patterns. I was blown away at the performance on the wet. On the highway, the tires felt nearly as confident as PS2s except that I did cross a couple of water patches during a downpour when I felt the car hydroplaning a bit, though given the conditions, I can't see any tire staying planted on the road. I did 4 autocross runs in the wet and 4 in dry, relatively warm conditions (temperamental BC weather) and performance was yet again stellar.
Wheels:
These are absolutely beautiful wheels and I love the fact that I can customize my own sizes and spacing. The CNC machining gives a very industrial/mechanical look and the design has a very aggressive appearance right down to the lack of wheel caps. At $2500, I don't know what could beat these. As for sizes, I went with these because I'm experimenting and they give me the flexibility to go down in size to 235/295 and have them on the outside of the size limit, which would offer great feedback.
Alignment and Suspension:
I won't go much into this here since it's already been discussed many times. What I want to contribute is that the variance between the front and rear camber make the car feel totally balanced on my 4S. During autocross, the car never oversteered or understeered despite some tight turns. The slight to out makes the car track just a tad on the street but gives fantastic turn-in, which is helpful when you've got so much tire in the front. Setting 7 on PSS9s work great on the street and the track, though I do plan to start playing with the settings as I do more AX.
I'm very grateful to Danny, Ted and everyone else who posted on RL on alignment specs, offsets and tire reviews. I spent numerous hours doing research to arrive at what I believe to be a great setup. The results speak for themselves. I'm a newb with only 6 AX events under my belt and have never done DE or track. I've had instruction from Danny (DJF1) and he's very kind but I know I've got a way to go before I get truly proficient. Despite my limitations, this past weekend I got the best time in my class and got my time within less than 1 second of a 7GT3 RS and a 6GT3 (both running street tires) which I think speaks volumes about the setup. I hope this helps someone else as much as others' posts and input have helped me.
Last edited by Wilder; 08-28-2007 at 04:00 PM.
08-28-2007, 12:43 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
BTW, that AX took place this past Saturday and was part of the annual PCA event for my region. Vic Elford was the keynote speaker, who was nice enough to sign the plaque for me, which coincidentally happens to have a picture of the car he drove on the 1971 Le Mans.
08-29-2007, 11:13 PM
#13
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
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Well done Louis!
So often people do not take the time to come back and provide their feedback, thank you for that.
Those wheels are amazing looking, love the CNC character they have.
Oh and when you do graduate to r-comps... you'll be eating your words about the azenis, and you'll never go back to street tires!
So often people do not take the time to come back and provide their feedback, thank you for that.
Those wheels are amazing looking, love the CNC character they have.
Oh and when you do graduate to r-comps... you'll be eating your words about the azenis, and you'll never go back to street tires!
08-31-2007, 05:53 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
DAMMIT I forgot to get my plaque signed by Vic too! !@!@# 
ah well.
Louis, did u read the note on pca-cwr that we have 2 autox dates at the pitt meadows skidpad?
ah well.
Louis, did u read the note on pca-cwr that we have 2 autox dates at the pitt meadows skidpad?
08-31-2007, 11:12 AM
#15
Actually, good R-compound tires (read: V710s, A6s) are dramatically grippier than the best street tires.
