MTR

So my turbo has a slight pinhole leak on the driver's side radiator that drips a small amount of coolant after spirited drives. After getting it inspected it turns out the passenger side radiator is also starting to weep where the plastic end-caps are climped on. So now I'm looking at replace at least 2 of the 3 front radiators.

First question, since I'm already going to be replacing the left and right, wouldn't it make sense to change the center at the same time?

Second, what brand do people recommend?
1. OEM Porsche ~$2,300
2. Behr OEM Supplier ~$1,300
3. CSF Aluminium ~$1,900

I really like the idea of the full aluminium CSF radiators, which should ensure I'm not dealing with weeping end caps again in 8-10 years. The problem I have is they all come polished with a awful painted on CSF logo. My turbo is a very stock looking street car and the last thing I want is some black CSF logo in my front grills. A CSF distributor I spoke with said customers often paint the CSF radiators black to retain a stock look. I'm curious how they look with the stock grills in place, does anyone have pictures of the CSF radiators installed? Anyone bothered painting/anodizing them? If so which method is used to not reduce thermal heat transfer properties?

Thanks for the help.

Macster

If absolutely no signs of any leaks with the 3rd/center radiator it is up to you if you replace the center radiator.

When my 996 Turbo radiators began to leak all 3 were leaking so the decision to replace all 3 was easy.

I was 2000 miles away from home and having to stay in a hotel while my car was being repaired so I just elected to go with the factory radiators to expedite the repair process. The original radiators lasted 130K miles so it is not like they were total crap.

Had I been at home I might have explored having the factory units replaced with CSF radiators. Next time, if there is a next time.

Way back in 2009 I hit a mule deer with my Turbo and the passenger side radiator and condenser had to be replaced. Factory parts were used and a part change had the replacement condenser and radiator a different color. IIRC the original parts were black (anodized?) while the replacement parts were in their natual aluminum color. Because I wanted the car to look unmolested I had the body shop paint the condenser and radiator so the car would not have obvious signs of any repairs. I do not know what paint was used.

If I had to do it again I'd just leave the replacement parts alone.

Keep in mind 2 of the radiators reside *behind* the condensers. I haven't checked this by looking at 997 Turbo but the chances are none of the radiator will be visble from the front/outside of the car so who cares what the radiators in the fenders look like? As long as they fit and do the job that's what is important.

For the center radiator maybe you could use a geninue Porsche radiator rather than buying a CSF radiator and having to concern yourself with painting the CSF radiator?

nzskater

Put mesh in the bumper so leaves and other debris stop building up and rotting your radiator, and then you won't have to worry about the radiators finish

MTR

Thanks for the input, there are very good points. The side radiators are covered up by the AC condensers so they aren't a problem. Guess I could replace the outside radiators with CSF and leave the factory unit in the center.

I wish I got 130k miles out of the OEM units, my car is only at 34k miles, hence why I'm worried about going through this again at 70k miles.

Alex at Sharkwerks said he would reach out to CSF to see if they could send him a center radiator without the painted logo. We will see if they can make that happen without a crazy lead time.

MTR

That's a good point, I'll look into it to see if there is a way to do it tastefully that doesn't look like I hot-glued some Home Depot chicken wire behind the factory grill.

I'm not as concerned about the finish, I just don't like the idea of the car becoming an advertisement for CSF, like some of the cars I see in google images.

Macster

I haven't bothered with mesh. Mesh brings with it other problems which I won't cover here.

Every time I have either of my cars in for service: Mainly ever 5K mile oil/filter service; I have "standing orders" to the tech to blow the trash out of the radiator ducts and if he believes the build up requires the front bumper cover be removed to do a more thorough cleaning to do so. The cover has been off the Turbo once for this since I bought it in 2009.

With this kind of attention the radiators in my 2002 Boxster are orignal with now over 308K miles. The ones in my Turbo lasted to 130K miles and were done in not by leave/trash build up -- there wasn't any - or corroision but by the extremely cold weather. The SM at the dealer told me his experience is the radiators start to fail at around 120K miles due to the wear and tear from the extreme expansion/contraction the radiators experience.

In my car's case on some days the radiators went from 0F to whatever the coolant gets up to call it 200F and then back down again once parked for the night.

Macster

Have to point out that with just 34K miles your car is still "new", as the new car warranty covers the 1st 50K miles (unless of course the warranty expires on time before the 50K miles are reached).

I believe even if you went with factory radiators they would probably be the last radiators you would need to buy. 'course the factory radiators probably cost more than the CSF radiators so there's that in favor of the CSF radiators.

As I might have mentioned the radiators in my Boxster are orignal and they have lasted for 15 years and over 308K miles. Should also point out this car (and the Turbo before and after the original radiators were replaced) has experienced big extremes in ambient temperatures from 0F to 116F (119F with the Turbo) with no ill effects.

Heck one time the Turbo went from the miid-80s in CA to just 20F in Flagstaff in the space of one (long) day's drive then over the next few days covered another 1000+ miles to MO and then 2K miles back to CA with no radiator (or any other) problems.

TT Surgeon

The Behr eBay replacements work just fine.

nzskater

Genuinely interested in hearing about the other problems mesh brings. From everything I've read, seen and experienced there are no additional problems, aside from very occasionally having to remove the bumper after driving through a swarm of insects to clean out their disintegrated bodies because they smell bad...

MTR

The warranty is long gone since it's a 2007 so that's not an option. I'm hoping they are the last set of radiators that the car needs, I just don't want to regret not spending a few hundred more on the CSF if the Behrs fail like the OEMs in another 34k miles.

I keep my radiators very clean by blowing them out with compressed air and using a vacuum with a long attachment to get into the sides. Both of the leaks on the left and right are at the top of the radiator where there isn't an issue of debris buildup rotting the radiators. So I'm not really sure what the cause of the failure is, maybe just a bad production batch.

Thanks for all the input. Sounds like the Behr units are fine, as well as CSF. Replacing the center is up to me, but if I leave the OEM unit I don't have to worry about removing the painted CSF logo.

therock88

Agree...I have had my (Self-fabricated black anodized stainless aluminum) grilles on my car since production year and have had no issues, other than not as many treasures stored in the radiators when I pull the front bumper cover off

I have been in slow/stop traffic, and participated in multiple 1/2 mile airstrip races and had no overheating issues either?

I would be curious to hear what perceived issues these would create? Airflow is only minimally impacted if at all...so???

DC

Macster

The mesh severely restricts the amount of air flow. I don't have the link handy but there's site that offers various mesh wire sizes with various spacing between the wires and how much area this takes away from the opening. The percentage lost to the mesh is considerable.

At low speeds maybe not a problem, but at WOT when the engine is making enough heat to heat a small city this reduction in air flow could be a problem.

Sure while some Porsche sport car models come with mesh they have the improved aerodynamics to compensate. This is not to be taken lightly. I found my 996 Turbo to be a very cool running car even in triple digit heat in spite of the fact it has a 3.6l 420hp power plant to keep cool. Part of this cooling is the superior aerodynamics the car has compared to say my 2002 Boxster. Superior aerodynamics that works to coax more air flow the radiators. Even in slow going the radiator fans seldom come while in the same conditions in my Boxster the radiator fans would be running all the time.

(Might mention one time the passenger radiator fan quit. The motor shaft snapped. I was unaware of this the car's coolant temperature remained normal and the A/C's performance was also normal even in Fresno summer heat. Going down the road had a good amount of air flowing through the radiator with the dead fan and with the other side's fan running just fine the car was just fine. I elected to get this addressed rather than venturing across the southwest for if the 2nd fan quit there might be a cooling problem if I was say stuck in traffic.)

Another problem is with the mesh if a piece of paper or plastic bag gets plastered against the mesh there is no air flowing the condenser/radiator.

Occasionally I'll spot car with something plastered against its nose, plastered against its grill. I note there is a lot of grill surface area and engine cooling is likely unaffected. But Porsche cars have relatively small radiator air intake openings. With the stock/meshless more open, err, opening even large pieces of trash go through of course and get caught but can't block air flow through entire surface of the condenser/radiator. While the engine probably won't overheat the radiator fan motor can overheat and probably fail from this.

While the mesh keeps out the larger "fluffier" stuff the smaller stuff: sand, gravel, dirt, insects, etc., still make it through the mesh. One still has to clean the stuff out -- which because of the mesh probably requires the bumper cover be removed rather than blowing or vacuuming the stuff out -- but because the fluffier stuff is kept out the smaller/finer stuff packs together and becomes more attached, as it were, to the duct surfaces, the bottom of the condenser and radiator.

Also, because one can't see the more obvious leaves and such one might believe the ducting is not collecting any trash/dirt which is of course a mistake.

Terry Adams

This after a few hours run through NV and SoCal desert. Not a mesh fan, but could have used some here.

therock88

The mesh does not restrict air-flow "considerably"..maybe insignificantly.... You can easily determine the airflow based on surface area relative to open space.

No harm comes from the grills at all. I have put them on the last 5 911's and Boxster's I had/have, and no change whatsoever, other than less crap in the radiators. I regularly monitor temps, and many variables with a variety of tools and have the covers off regularly. They do not cause smaller items to be more embedded. They just keep big stuff out.

I would suggest still doing regularly cleaning, even with the grilles, as small items still get through, but no issues created with having them. As mentioned Porsche started putting them on OEM's and look at the airflow designs...basically the same.

Anyway...for what its worth I can personally attest that on at least 5 of my P-cars (and even 2 Cayenne's) ..No change in temps...no additional fan time, no overheating...Just good looks and less junk.

But here is a picture of what it looks like without them...Not sure how this is not more restrictive than a piece of mesh??

Also included the reduction in airflow for various patterns below. Fan company had CFM with High speed fan with no grill...then placed various patterned grills over the opening and measured...pretty straightforward, and pretty insignificant...Just some facts for those considering it...

DC

CSF Cooling

A lot of the cars that you'll see on google images of our center radiator are cars either race cars or show cars where they want to show off that they're using our high performance products or for better air flow through a more transparent center ducting.

Side rads you'll never see the logo - honestly once you put the OEM mesh back on the center, it will be very hard to tell that you have a CSF center radiator - if you take a look at the pictures attached, you can barely tell.






This picture has been digitally altered to show more of the shadow of the radiator showing



Both the GT3RS and the 996TT have a CSF center radiator