Race Tech Forged Owes Me $5000
12-16-2016, 07:59 PM
#136
Update:
They have sent me a pic of a cashier's cheque from Chase Bank, and have also given me a UPS tracking number. It says 2? Items set to arrive on Wednesday.
I'll update everyone once it arrives.
I don't want to say too much of anything right now as I don't want to jinx this. Lightning may actually strike! (but probably not, we'll see)
They have sent me a pic of a cashier's cheque from Chase Bank, and have also given me a UPS tracking number. It says 2? Items set to arrive on Wednesday.
I'll update everyone once it arrives.
I don't want to say too much of anything right now as I don't want to jinx this. Lightning may actually strike! (but probably not, we'll see)
12-16-2016, 08:38 PM
#137
Instructor
Many well established wheel companies have had wheel failures on and off the track.
So lets not play games here and speak out of line here.
We perform FEA test on all our wheels to meet SAE J2530 standards and make sure each wheel have a load rating of 1600bs each wheel. Building a SAFE product is the upmost concern of ours!
Yes a wheel failed on a race track which isn't the first wheel in HISTORY to fail. You can search many established brands and see with your own eyes wheels have failed on and off race tracks.
What no one seems to not know because obviously Gary neglected to mention is that we offered him 4 new wheels once we found out about the issue, not just one wheel but 4 brand new MonoBloc Series wheels to take care of the issue of the failure.
Now find any company that will honor a failure on a track? or even go to go to the extreme of offering 4 brand new wheels?
So go off and call or email any wheel company you wish and see if you'll get a document stating the warranty isn't voided on your wheel/ or any mechanical component in that case if it was used for racing/track use and it fails.
You probably won't be able to get that because just like Porsche and many other OEM manufactures once you drive the car on a race track ALL warrantees are voided.
Yes there was an incident with the wheel and YES we were willing to take care of the problem right away without hesitation till gary's demands were unreasonable.
Just like all custom forged wheel companies all orders are final and theres no refunds or returns on custom made wheels.
We will honor our warranty and replace the damaged wheel once we have the wheel in our warehouse to determine the failure. which the member is refusing to send to have inspected.
So lets not play games here and speak out of line here.
We perform FEA test on all our wheels to meet SAE J2530 standards and make sure each wheel have a load rating of 1600bs each wheel. Building a SAFE product is the upmost concern of ours!
Yes a wheel failed on a race track which isn't the first wheel in HISTORY to fail. You can search many established brands and see with your own eyes wheels have failed on and off race tracks.
What no one seems to not know because obviously Gary neglected to mention is that we offered him 4 new wheels once we found out about the issue, not just one wheel but 4 brand new MonoBloc Series wheels to take care of the issue of the failure.
Now find any company that will honor a failure on a track? or even go to go to the extreme of offering 4 brand new wheels?
So go off and call or email any wheel company you wish and see if you'll get a document stating the warranty isn't voided on your wheel/ or any mechanical component in that case if it was used for racing/track use and it fails.
You probably won't be able to get that because just like Porsche and many other OEM manufactures once you drive the car on a race track ALL warrantees are voided.
Yes there was an incident with the wheel and YES we were willing to take care of the problem right away without hesitation till gary's demands were unreasonable.
Just like all custom forged wheel companies all orders are final and theres no refunds or returns on custom made wheels.
We will honor our warranty and replace the damaged wheel once we have the wheel in our warehouse to determine the failure. which the member is refusing to send to have inspected.
I called HRE to see if I could buy just one more wheel. When I told them what I had done, they told me to ship not just the one wheel, but all 4 wheels back to them. Once they received them, they called me and told me they didn't think their track wheels should crack. (despite my knucklehead move)
They then told me to pick ANY set of wheels they make, in ANY finish, and they would build and ship them to me FREE OF COST. I wasn't even the original purchaser of this particular set!
Prior to this I had purchased 2 sets of HRE's for my NSX and 996 Turbo, since then I've purchased another set for my GT3. And I will continue to purchase them.
Lesson to be learned: You get what you pay for, so stick with the big names with established reputations. Ones that actually have more than 3 employees.
12-16-2016, 10:28 PM
#138
Advanced
THE SMOKING GUN FOR RACE TECH FORGED WHEELS-----------Several Rennlist members posted that the cracks in the broken spokes of mine and bhf_clt's failed wheels looked like cracks that would occur in cast wheels.
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. and the metals testing lab is confident it their findings. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense "cast wheel". I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified as cast metal so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this report to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and this bait and switch fraud needs to be halted before one of their sets kills someone. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. and the metals testing lab is confident it their findings. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense "cast wheel". I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified as cast metal so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this report to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and this bait and switch fraud needs to be halted before one of their sets kills someone. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
Last edited by garyever; 02-03-2017 at 05:13 PM. Reason: editorial
12-16-2016, 11:32 PM
#139
THE SMOKING GUN FOR RACE TECH FORGED-----------Several Rennlist members posted that the cracks in the broken spokes of mine and bhf_clt's failed wheels looked like cracks that would occur in cast wheels.
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
Thank you for sharing!!!! For those that possibly bought these counterfet wheels, my sincere hope that you find solice with this information that may have prevented a disaster for you on the highway or track... Yes, it sucks terribly..but there are far more worse outcomes in life...JB
12-17-2016, 01:21 AM
#140
Drifting
It's hard to believe this has taken so long to resolve.
Great info from carcrazy. It's all in the wording. man this place is the place to be for sure!
I have a feeling this company will pay up in the end, but the damage is already done IMO.
I would rather have a root canal without anesthetic than buy wheels from these guys now.
Great info from carcrazy. It's all in the wording. man this place is the place to be for sure!
I have a feeling this company will pay up in the end, but the damage is already done IMO.
I would rather have a root canal without anesthetic than buy wheels from these guys now.
12-17-2016, 01:39 AM
#142
Rennlist Member
THE SMOKING GUN FOR RACE TECH FORGED-----------Several Rennlist members posted that the cracks in the broken spokes of mine and bhf_clt's failed wheels looked like cracks that would occur in cast wheels.
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
Holy smokes ... that's an F-Ton of profit margin for them ! They've been cleansing house on wheels that prolly cost $50 each to make.
12-17-2016, 02:48 AM
#144
Racer
Thread Starter
Jason, I hope you receive the check on Wednesday. If you do not, please know you CAN open a second credit card dispute with your Visa card company but it must be for a different reason. If your first reason was "item not received", then open a new dispute for "not as described or defective". Show pictures and evidence of a tracking number showing the product was sent back to RTF and you will absolutely win a second credit card dispute. My business works with credit card companies on a daily basis so I know the ins and outs extremely well. I've personally seen multiple disputes about the same purchase. It does not matter they "won" the first dispute. They will lose the second. I'm 100% sure of this.
BTW, this thread saved me. I was deciding between "cheap" RTF wheels and Forgeline for my 997TT (with centerlock wheels like yours). I went with Forgeline given their reputation and the fact that 50% (or so) of the wheels produced by Forgeline are made for race teams.
BTW, this thread saved me. I was deciding between "cheap" RTF wheels and Forgeline for my 997TT (with centerlock wheels like yours). I went with Forgeline given their reputation and the fact that 50% (or so) of the wheels produced by Forgeline are made for race teams.
I'm glad you went with forgeline. I have a set of proper track wheels from them and can't say enough good things. I just feel like such a fool for trying to save a buck on a set of summer 20s for show.
Easy. HRE. I bought my GT3 with 3000 miles on it. Previous owner had HRE's on them. After tracking them for 4 years, one wheel had a very tiny hairline crack right by the lug bolt hole. I seriously think it was my fault because I forgot to torque my lug nuts prior to that run, and that wheel was "wobbling". That's what made me check it for damage.
I called HRE to see if I could buy just one more wheel. When I told them what I had done, they told me to ship not just the one wheel, but all 4 wheels back to them. Once they received them, they called me and told me they didn't think their track wheels should crack. (despite my knucklehead move)
They then told me to pick ANY set of wheels they make, in ANY finish, and they would build and ship them to me FREE OF COST. I wasn't even the original purchaser of this particular set!
Prior to this I had purchased 2 sets of HRE's for my NSX and 996 Turbo, since then I've purchased another set for my GT3. And I will continue to purchase them.
Lesson to be learned: You get what you pay for, so stick with the big names with established reputations. Ones that actually have more than 3 employees.
I called HRE to see if I could buy just one more wheel. When I told them what I had done, they told me to ship not just the one wheel, but all 4 wheels back to them. Once they received them, they called me and told me they didn't think their track wheels should crack. (despite my knucklehead move)
They then told me to pick ANY set of wheels they make, in ANY finish, and they would build and ship them to me FREE OF COST. I wasn't even the original purchaser of this particular set!
Prior to this I had purchased 2 sets of HRE's for my NSX and 996 Turbo, since then I've purchased another set for my GT3. And I will continue to purchase them.
Lesson to be learned: You get what you pay for, so stick with the big names with established reputations. Ones that actually have more than 3 employees.
THE SMOKING GUN FOR RACE TECH FORGED-----------Several Rennlist members posted that the cracks in the broken spokes of mine and bhf_clt's failed wheels looked like cracks that would occur in cast wheels.
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
I am now holding a certified test report from an Independent Metals Testing Laboratory published today that confirms Race Tech Motoring is indeed machining and selling counterfeit "cast" wheels, which may be part of the 1400 or so aluminum alloy wheels they imported from South Korea last year that I questioned in several earlier posts. This test report displays that there is no sign of forging (elongated grain flow) in the test sample cut from my wheel. Cast wheels come from aluminum alloy liquid poured in to a mold so retain their original "rounded grain shape", which produces only the original strength of the 6061 aluminum. Forged wheels come from a large extruded aluminum alloy core bar that is smashed into the shape of a wheel at gigantic pressures to produce a smaller grain size (denser, stronger metal) and a very strong, elongated "grain flow shape" in the direction of which the strength is needed to create the very light and strong forged wheel strength. The two processes have little in common, so they are either one or the other. There are no grey areas in this report. Additionally, the Brinell hardness test confirms that the T6 hardness of my wheel is too low at 82 hbw, which should be at 95, too low to meet 6061-T6 hardness, and which would be expected from a less dense cast wheel. I have commissioned a blind test from a 2nd laboratory to confirm this report, before releasing it to California authorities, but I think the cat is out of the bag here and hand writing on the wall for RTM/RTF. Mine are certified counterfeit so I have to go with the assumption that all are cast and will report the findings of the blind confirmation to the forum when received. I am releasing this early to discourage any more victims at RTM/RTF as they have done enough damage already and does not need to continue further. Note that pictures of my wheels tested are included in the report to authenticate that the subjects tested are my RTM wheels that failed.
This is why I continued to refuse to return the wheel to RTM. I have removed the lab's name from the test report to keep RTM from attacking them until California Authorities have taken over this investigation. (click below for the lab report)
12-17-2016, 08:47 AM
#147
Below I have provided contact information for the FBI and DOT... Based on that Raz of RTF has conducted business across state lines and sold potentially unsafe vehicular equipment, I beleive the FBI and DOT would be very interested to open a case.
https://www.oig.dot.gov/hotline
Good Luck...JB
Last edited by johnbelk; 12-17-2016 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Stuff
12-17-2016, 12:56 PM
#150
Instructor
Much thanks and appreciation to you and Gary for exposing these criminals and helping protect our car community!