Mezger vs 9A1! Which is the "must have" engine, and why there is actually no winner.
12-22-2016, 01:45 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
In a nutshell:
Mezger: a High HP threshold race derived engine block detuned for street use. Basically trickled down from the track to the street
9A1: a Consumer grade engine tuned up near its Threshold. Trickled up from the street to the track.
They are both great for the street, Porsche doesn't build crap. At the end its all about personal preference and having a smile in your face.
Mezger: a High HP threshold race derived engine block detuned for street use. Basically trickled down from the track to the street
9A1: a Consumer grade engine tuned up near its Threshold. Trickled up from the street to the track.
They are both great for the street, Porsche doesn't build crap. At the end its all about personal preference and having a smile in your face.
12-22-2016, 05:36 PM
#47
Racer
What are the limits on each of the two without requiring upgrades to the internals?
12-23-2016, 12:12 AM
#48
Fellow Rennlister Longboader with his 997.2 TTS.
https://youtu.be/fvnPFMb0_NM
You pose a good question, but the .2's DFI fuel delivery system limits power ratings to aprox 700 crank HP.
However, as seen in the video, it's not how much HP you have, but how it's put down.... Higher HP cars are left at the start.. The 997.2's AWD and PDK combination is excellent for consistent launches...
Not sure this answers your question, but it does reflect what's possible with stock turbos, a tune, the right tires and bolt ons for a 997.2 TTS. With AC left intact...
My TTS remains stock...and is capable of putting me behind bars just quick enough...but I will add a tune and exhaust next year....JB
Last edited by johnbelk; 12-23-2016 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Stuff
06-05-2019, 05:53 AM
#49
Hey guys, new to these 997 turbo forums as of last week. lol What struck me as odd is the number of 997.1 turbo owners referring to the Mezger block as being superior to the 9A1 block long-term.
Before I begin, I'd like to point out I own a 997.2 GT3 RS and think the Mezger is one of the best engines in history in naturally aspirated form.
Now, regarding the Mezger vs 9A1 debate, just wanted to throw a few points out there for people to understand and reflect on because I find this debate merit less and quite frankly, silly at best.
So proponents for the Mezger generally go like this....
The mezger has the racing pedigree (one of the most successful engine blocks in history), the reliability (backed up via race car usage since the mid-90s), the prestige, and even has an output of 620hp in the GT2 RS making it the king of the hill in overall output. On top of that, this engine is being tuned to monstrous levels. That statement holds true in 2016.
BUT...
Now, let me give you an outlook into the future....
GT3R was revealed in 2015 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 Cup was revealed in 2016 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 RSR will be revealed with a turbo in 2017... with you guessed it... a 9A1 motor according to rumours and test mules with that distinctive turbo sound!
2018 GT2 RS will be unveiled in 2017/18, and once again, with the 9A1 motor! And it will have 650-700hp according to reports surpassing the Mezger once again.
The 9A1's racing pedgree is just beginning to form. The reliability will be established, and the cars will probably continue to do well against the competition. The engine block will recieve the highest output to date as well.
Lastly, this question of 'tunability' --more HP can be achieved with the earlier block. The 9A1 appeared in the 997.2, is continuing through the 991, and as of now, there is no indication that the 9A1 won't be used for the 992 as well. Eventually this block will continue to be upgraded to be more durable, and I'm assuming the modified block that will be used in the GT2 RS will be more reliable and durable than the Mezger block. This is just a question of when, not if, the 9A1 will eventually be tuned to levels well in excess of 1000HP.
So, once you sit back and understand legends take time to be created, to argue that the Mezger is more special or has more of an iconic status is just downright silly when the 9A1 is being used for the exact same applications in racing. It's a question of time...
I've noticed it's a common theme that 997.1 owners here keep stating that the Mezger block is the one to have. I'm not sure these forum posters have any foresight because the 9A1 is basically the Mezger II block.
It will receive the same status and prestige and racing heritage as the Mezger with time making this whole debate a moot point.
A few years from now people are not going to value a Mezger over a 9A1. Not sure everyone understands this is the beginning of the motorsport lifespan of the 9A1. The 2014 GT3 fiasco was solved and all the original motors were replaced, unaffecting values years from now and it presumably, won't be repeated.
In addition, the 9A1 has improved fuel economy that will reduce the number of pitstops required in a race, and turbo lag is down on the street cars vs earlier models.
Not sure if there's anything here to debate about. I'll step back and would like to hear if there are any additional arguments.
I think by 2019 or so after all the crazy GT2 RS reviews, and GT3 RSR this will be a topic that will take a backseat.
Before I begin, I'd like to point out I own a 997.2 GT3 RS and think the Mezger is one of the best engines in history in naturally aspirated form.
Now, regarding the Mezger vs 9A1 debate, just wanted to throw a few points out there for people to understand and reflect on because I find this debate merit less and quite frankly, silly at best.
So proponents for the Mezger generally go like this....
The mezger has the racing pedigree (one of the most successful engine blocks in history), the reliability (backed up via race car usage since the mid-90s), the prestige, and even has an output of 620hp in the GT2 RS making it the king of the hill in overall output. On top of that, this engine is being tuned to monstrous levels. That statement holds true in 2016.
BUT...
Now, let me give you an outlook into the future....
GT3R was revealed in 2015 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 Cup was revealed in 2016 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 RSR will be revealed with a turbo in 2017... with you guessed it... a 9A1 motor according to rumours and test mules with that distinctive turbo sound!
2018 GT2 RS will be unveiled in 2017/18, and once again, with the 9A1 motor! And it will have 650-700hp according to reports surpassing the Mezger once again.
The 9A1's racing pedgree is just beginning to form. The reliability will be established, and the cars will probably continue to do well against the competition. The engine block will recieve the highest output to date as well.
Lastly, this question of 'tunability' --more HP can be achieved with the earlier block. The 9A1 appeared in the 997.2, is continuing through the 991, and as of now, there is no indication that the 9A1 won't be used for the 992 as well. Eventually this block will continue to be upgraded to be more durable, and I'm assuming the modified block that will be used in the GT2 RS will be more reliable and durable than the Mezger block. This is just a question of when, not if, the 9A1 will eventually be tuned to levels well in excess of 1000HP.
So, once you sit back and understand legends take time to be created, to argue that the Mezger is more special or has more of an iconic status is just downright silly when the 9A1 is being used for the exact same applications in racing. It's a question of time...
I've noticed it's a common theme that 997.1 owners here keep stating that the Mezger block is the one to have. I'm not sure these forum posters have any foresight because the 9A1 is basically the Mezger II block.
It will receive the same status and prestige and racing heritage as the Mezger with time making this whole debate a moot point.A few years from now people are not going to value a Mezger over a 9A1. Not sure everyone understands this is the beginning of the motorsport lifespan of the 9A1. The 2014 GT3 fiasco was solved and all the original motors were replaced, unaffecting values years from now and it presumably, won't be repeated.
In addition, the 9A1 has improved fuel economy that will reduce the number of pitstops required in a race, and turbo lag is down on the street cars vs earlier models.
Not sure if there's anything here to debate about. I'll step back and would like to hear if there are any additional arguments.
I think by 2019 or so after all the crazy GT2 RS reviews, and GT3 RSR this will be a topic that will take a backseat.
06-05-2019, 07:10 AM
#51
06-07-2019, 09:14 AM
#52
For me it has to be a Mezger. I don't care about times, numbers, HP ratings because i'm not racing. For me its about lineage. Pre bean counter and mommy van era Porsche automobiles are collectible for a reason and the 997.1 cars are on that threshold. The end of an era as far as i'm concerned.
06-07-2019, 12:13 PM
#53
For me it has to be a Mezger. I don't care about times, numbers, HP ratings because i'm not racing. For me its about lineage. Pre bean counter and mommy van era Porsche automobiles are collectible for a reason and the 997.1 cars are on that threshold. The end of an era as far as i'm concerned.
06-07-2019, 12:46 PM
#54
+1. I am flying tomorrow to look at/buy a 2009 TT MT cab. I think it is the best combination of the last great analog 911.I am buying it to drive it 8-10k miles per year and to teach my 12 year old granddaughter how to drive a stick.She loved my last car (see avatar) as much as I did.
06-07-2019, 12:56 PM
#55
For me the intent can be seen in many ways. But nikasil is better than alusil and lokasil is a joke on a $200k car. Metzger wins easily even over 9A1. And the G50 box still wins over PDK for me. High mileage PDK’s have awful issues. The M96/97 is a cost reduced joke e.g. 3 thou nitrided layer on the crank and so many other issues. Basically 140k kms and your crank is done - nothing left for regrinding.
06-09-2019, 02:18 PM
#56
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I like TACOS!!!
Oh.......and I loved my Mezger 996TT and Love my current 9A1 997.2TTS......
As you were.
.
Oh.......and I loved my Mezger 996TT and Love my current 9A1 997.2TTS......
As you were.
.
06-09-2019, 02:21 PM
#57
Rocky Mountain High
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06-09-2019, 02:25 PM
#58
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When I buy tacos, as I did yesterday actually. I get both!
4 Soft Pollo with cilantro and onions and a lime to squeeze, and 4 hard shell beef with American traditional lettuce, cheese and sour cream!!
Local authentic Mexican taqueria spot here (We have many to choose from).
Absolutely divine!!
You???
06-09-2019, 05:08 PM
#59
9A1 engine is a great engine. Completely different then the GT-1 engine. The Saturn V rockets that took our men to the moon back in the 70’s were perfect. Now we have the new rockets made by pot smoking Musk. You see any of them rockets going to the moon? Sure they are great but no moon shots yet.
06-09-2019, 06:30 PM
#60
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
When I buy tacos, as I did yesterday actually. I get both!
4 Soft Pollo with cilantro and onions and a lime to squeeze, and 4 hard shell beef with American traditional lettuce, cheese and sour cream!!
Local authentic Mexican taqueria spot here (We have many to choose from).
Absolutely divine!!
You???
4 Soft Pollo with cilantro and onions and a lime to squeeze, and 4 hard shell beef with American traditional lettuce, cheese and sour cream!!
Local authentic Mexican taqueria spot here (We have many to choose from).
Absolutely divine!!
You???
It’s all good. I like traditional with two soft corn tortillas, I like hard shell, and I like flour tortillas. I don’t discriminate.