997.2 Turbo manual future values
12-04-2016, 06:31 PM
#61
Racer
Yes I've seen two online over the last year while I was looking to buy, both well in the Southern US (Alabama and Kentucky) so too far for me to view.
12-04-2016, 08:58 PM
#62
I'm convinced that this outweighs everything else. There are simply too many of these to go around for individual examples to be special until there aren't many left. When will that be? 2070?
The only thing that would push me personally is the fact that the 991 examples haven't physically aged for as many years. In a driver that makes a difference in how on top of things I need to stay. Otherwise, I'm not sure I want a larger car. I'm also not sure I want a manual from an era where the pdk was the superior choice, and I do want a manual.
That said, that's me, and I don't think it does anything to discredit your point. Anyone buying a 997 as an investment is doing something very silly.
However, as a driver, a used 997 may well loose less in residual value than say a slightly newer m6. Never mind some of the british brands. (And they are all great cars.) But that's hardly the same as appreciating.
BTW, for me, a big reason to keep my 997 and eventually only own p-cars for daily use is the fact that I get competent service at the dealer. Yes, it costs money, but unlike the BMW I don't have to worry about what they will break or sabotage every time I have them change the oil.
you cant tell me for same money you will take a 997 turbo over a 991 turbo.
That said, that's me, and I don't think it does anything to discredit your point. Anyone buying a 997 as an investment is doing something very silly.
However, as a driver, a used 997 may well loose less in residual value than say a slightly newer m6. Never mind some of the british brands. (And they are all great cars.) But that's hardly the same as appreciating.
BTW, for me, a big reason to keep my 997 and eventually only own p-cars for daily use is the fact that I get competent service at the dealer. Yes, it costs money, but unlike the BMW I don't have to worry about what they will break or sabotage every time I have them change the oil.
12-07-2016, 09:36 PM
#63
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On the topic of 997TT values, you guys might find this to be an interesting read:
https://csddaily.wordpress.com/2016/...-2016-edition/
In a nutshell, I've been tracking auction sales data (Manheim, eBay, Bring-A-Trailer, etc.), and the 997.2TT has done a good job of holding its value over the past year. I'm not urging everybody to go out and treat 997.2TT's as lucrative investments, nor am I trying to start a flame war w/ the Mezger fanbase, but I just wanted to highlight to this community what I've been seeing.
https://csddaily.wordpress.com/2016/...-2016-edition/
In a nutshell, I've been tracking auction sales data (Manheim, eBay, Bring-A-Trailer, etc.), and the 997.2TT has done a good job of holding its value over the past year. I'm not urging everybody to go out and treat 997.2TT's as lucrative investments, nor am I trying to start a flame war w/ the Mezger fanbase, but I just wanted to highlight to this community what I've been seeing.
12-07-2016, 10:46 PM
#64
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I tried looking up the breakdown of the 25,000 997 Turbos produced from least to most numerous:
722 997.2 Turbo manuals (19% of production)
2000 997.2 Turbo S
3078 997.2 Turbo PDK
8500 997.1 Turbo manual (45% of production)
10,560 997.1 Turbo Tiptronic
Two assumptions have been made here: Total911 stated production of manuals for the 997.2 was around 20% before production ended, but since PDK was increasing in popularity, I'm going to go with 19% instead. Also, sources for manual production numbers differ. I've used a 45:55 ratio with the tiptronic here, however please contribute if there's reason to believe it's lower and I'll modify it.
The 997.2 Turbo manual is destined to be a desirable collector's item in the future.
722 997.2 Turbo manuals (19% of production)
2000 997.2 Turbo S
3078 997.2 Turbo PDK
8500 997.1 Turbo manual (45% of production)
10,560 997.1 Turbo Tiptronic
Two assumptions have been made here: Total911 stated production of manuals for the 997.2 was around 20% before production ended, but since PDK was increasing in popularity, I'm going to go with 19% instead. Also, sources for manual production numbers differ. I've used a 45:55 ratio with the tiptronic here, however please contribute if there's reason to believe it's lower and I'll modify it.
The 997.2 Turbo manual is destined to be a desirable collector's item in the future.
12-07-2016, 10:53 PM
#65
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Mezger engine....hahahaha
that's like saying the 89 3.2 carrera engine is special and people collect 89 carreras for that reason alone, even though they been making some variant of the same engine for 35 years.
95% of buyers don't know the difference between a mezger and new 997.2 engine
a 997 will go the same route as a 996 in terms of collectiblility, there's nothing special about a 997, especially as they keep improving the 911 into the 991 and further on
993 are special due to the air cool. The water cools are nothing special and they made a ton of 997 turbos.
991 turbos will keep depreciating to below 100k and will push 997 turbo prices down, you cant tell me for same money you will take a 997 turbo over a 991 turbo.
Oh yeah, a 997.2 Turbo S does 0 to 60 in 2.8/9 seconds, how much faster do you want? Hence this hogwash about a mezger engine is hogwash.
Disclaimer- i speak for myself and in no way shape or form intend to offend anyone who owns a porsche with mezger engine. at end of day they are all great cars.
that's like saying the 89 3.2 carrera engine is special and people collect 89 carreras for that reason alone, even though they been making some variant of the same engine for 35 years.
95% of buyers don't know the difference between a mezger and new 997.2 engine
a 997 will go the same route as a 996 in terms of collectiblility, there's nothing special about a 997, especially as they keep improving the 911 into the 991 and further on
993 are special due to the air cool. The water cools are nothing special and they made a ton of 997 turbos.
991 turbos will keep depreciating to below 100k and will push 997 turbo prices down, you cant tell me for same money you will take a 997 turbo over a 991 turbo.
Oh yeah, a 997.2 Turbo S does 0 to 60 in 2.8/9 seconds, how much faster do you want? Hence this hogwash about a mezger engine is hogwash.
Disclaimer- i speak for myself and in no way shape or form intend to offend anyone who owns a porsche with mezger engine. at end of day they are all great cars.
Also, the 996TTS is currently appreciating (recent example here.) If the 996TTS is going up, it's difficult to imagine the 997.1TT falling behind the 996TTS in market value.
One more thing to take into account is that the 997TT is the last TT to come in manual. Many believe that the manual transmission is a big driver for why the 997 GT3/GT3RS/GT3RS4.0 became investment cars.
12-11-2016, 02:34 PM
#66
I recently sold my beloved '02 996TT (owned 12 years) with high miles on it. I'd been lucky to get the last version (MY '05) engine when the dealer did a complete engine module replacement under warranty for cracked block up by the tower where the crankcase breather is.......common I guess and fixed with a new and much stronger crank case. Like others of you..........I held on because it ran like a clock and was very nice to drive. I had a flash and a few other upgrades. But here's what finally got to me; the 996 was really the first of the new/modern snap together designs by Porsche (that began in MY '99) ....... and really much of the body wasn't that well done. It had started to rattle in spite of my extraordinary efforts. The chassis was getting harsh in spite of many parts replaced. The leather was showing no wear or discoloration but was "puckering" or the plastic backing it bonded to was.....or some other age related degradation. Bottom line it was feeling and to some extent looking like an old used car. I can tell you the buyer was thrilled at its condition. When prices pulled up near/to $40k from $30k or so not long ago, I dumped her and upgraded to an '11 997.2 TTS S cab 23k miles for $85 even. I might chip it, the Ceramic Brakes are insanely nice, its well faster than the 996TT, and the creature comforts are nice. I went with the PDK.......it's nice, and now the lady can drive it easily........but the PDK has its limitations, I could go ether way. I really don't see these as Collector cars, and we're seeing all the later P cars that went through the $$ roof falling back to reality now 9except the best of the best and the truly rare). If you were a seller in the next decade, you likely missed the market top........but it matters little to me, I'm a driver. I keep my collectables to '50's or earlier. Just my $.02's woth here.
12-11-2016, 08:54 PM
#67
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I recently sold my beloved '02 996TT (owned 12 years) with high miles on it. I'd been lucky to get the last version (MY '05) engine when the dealer did a complete engine module replacement under warranty for cracked block up by the tower where the crankcase breather is.......common I guess and fixed with a new and much stronger crank case. Like others of you..........I held on because it ran like a clock and was very nice to drive. I had a flash and a few other upgrades. But here's what finally got to me; the 996 was really the first of the new/modern snap together designs by Porsche (that began in MY '99) ....... and really much of the body wasn't that well done. It had started to rattle in spite of my extraordinary efforts. The chassis was getting harsh in spite of many parts replaced. The leather was showing no wear or discoloration but was "puckering" or the plastic backing it bonded to was.....or some other age related degradation. Bottom line it was feeling and to some extent looking like an old used car. I can tell you the buyer was thrilled at its condition. When prices pulled up near/to $40k from $30k or so not long ago, I dumped her and upgraded to an '11 997.2 TTS S cab 23k miles for $85 even. I might chip it, the Ceramic Brakes are insanely nice, its well faster than the 996TT, and the creature comforts are nice. I went with the PDK.......it's nice, and now the lady can drive it easily........but the PDK has its limitations, I could go ether way. I really don't see these as Collector cars, and we're seeing all the later P cars that went through the $$ roof falling back to reality now 9except the best of the best and the truly rare). If you were a seller in the next decade, you likely missed the market top........but it matters little to me, I'm a driver. I keep my collectables to '50's or earlier. Just my $.02's woth here.
Last edited by HellaHashTags; 12-11-2016 at 08:55 PM. Reason: wrong wording
12-14-2016, 09:35 AM
#68
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Hello,
I have a question for the more informed:
the 6/MT mounted on 997.1 is the same of 997.2?
if I remember correctly on my 997.1 there is a ZF which works very well..it is very pleasant engage the gears!
Many Thanks and congratulations to all the community of Rennlist
gianluca
I have a question for the more informed:
the 6/MT mounted on 997.1 is the same of 997.2?
if I remember correctly on my 997.1 there is a ZF which works very well..it is very pleasant engage the gears!
Many Thanks and congratulations to all the community of Rennlist
gianluca
12-15-2016, 05:15 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Thanks for your insight on the topic. I think a key thing that the 997.2TT w/ 6MT has going for it is that it Porsche made less of them (~700) than they did with the 993TT (~2000), and we all know how the 993TT ended up. Maybe in 2027 we'll see something similar with the 997.2TT 6MT (I know I know, not air-cooled.)
993TT and 997TT are close in production numbers if you only consider the coupes with MT.
12-15-2016, 05:22 PM
#70
Hello,
I have a question for the more informed:
the 6/MT mounted on 997.1 is the same of 997.2?
if I remember correctly on my 997.1 there is a ZF which works very well..it is very pleasant engage the gears!
Many Thanks and congratulations to all the community of Rennlist
gianluca
I have a question for the more informed:
the 6/MT mounted on 997.1 is the same of 997.2?
if I remember correctly on my 997.1 there is a ZF which works very well..it is very pleasant engage the gears!
Many Thanks and congratulations to all the community of Rennlist
gianluca
)
12-15-2016, 05:52 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Are the Aisin units in the Turbo the same as in my old 997 Carrera S or have they been beefed up?
12-15-2016, 09:51 PM
#72
Pro
12-16-2016, 12:22 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
997.2 PDK cars will be worth the most because Americans will get lazy one day soon, won't want to shift anymore, all their knees will be hurting from being so overweight, traffic will get so bad that manuals will be a nightmare to drive due to bumper to bumper traffic across the US and all 997.2's, especially the silver/black ones, will be worth close to $300K. Just wait and see.
12-16-2016, 03:57 AM
#74
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Getrag made the story of Porsche's transmission since the beginning.
German car, german motor, german gearbox...as always.
I don't understand why now they change supplier for this so important piece.
So I assume that is japanese also for 991.
In the same time I think it as very reliable as is natural for products coming from Japan.
Thanks caslca for your reply.
German car, german motor, german gearbox...as always.
I don't understand why now they change supplier for this so important piece.
So I assume that is japanese also for 991.
In the same time I think it as very reliable as is natural for products coming from Japan.
Thanks caslca for your reply.
12-17-2016, 05:19 PM
#75
Pro
Sales History
bigmacsmallfries did a great job of summarizing sales numbers for the 997 turbo. The numbers he relayed must be global numbers. Although with some exotics the market is global, most Porsche owners probably focus on their local market, unless you're looking for something like a 959. I've tried to get good data for the US and have even approached PCNA to get detailed sales data to no avail. Ideally it would be great to have sales history by MY, not CY broken out by manual/tip,pdk as well as cpe/cab. I was able to research their press releases and found that they broke out the TT's by couple and cab trough the 2009 CY, Starting in CY 2010 they only published total 911 numbers with no further breakdown. I assume the sales history BMSF summarized came from German, not PCNA. Here are the numbers from PCNA YE press releases.
year cpe cab total
06 1156 0 1156
07 2773 736 3509
08 668 1473 2141
09 321 551 872
total 4918 2760 7678
They didn't break out trans type, and the MY breakout would differ from the CY numbers. I doubt there are any 997.2 sales in the CY 09 numbers, but I don't know when the 2010 997.2 cars went on sale. Hope this sheds some light, it would be great if someone has more detailed data. Here's the link to PCNA's archived press releases; http://press.porsche.com/news/index.php?year=archived
year cpe cab total
06 1156 0 1156
07 2773 736 3509
08 668 1473 2141
09 321 551 872
total 4918 2760 7678
They didn't break out trans type, and the MY breakout would differ from the CY numbers. I doubt there are any 997.2 sales in the CY 09 numbers, but I don't know when the 2010 997.2 cars went on sale. Hope this sheds some light, it would be great if someone has more detailed data. Here's the link to PCNA's archived press releases; http://press.porsche.com/news/index.php?year=archived