997.2 Turbo manual future values
10-22-2016, 09:13 PM
#46
Rocky Mountain High
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I saw a statement recently by someone that declared the 997.1 turbo with a 6MT will be the one to have, for a variety of reasons. The two that stood out in this argument were the Mezger engine and the fact that the 997.1 is the last one without LED lighting, so it has more of an "old school" appeal. I can see some logic there....
We will never know until the market decides in the future. It's pointless to spend any time trying to figure it out.
We will never know until the market decides in the future. It's pointless to spend any time trying to figure it out.
10-26-2016, 02:02 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I saw a statement recently by someone that declared the 997.1 turbo with a 6MT will be the one to have, for a variety of reasons. The two that stood out in this argument were the Mezger engine and the fact that the 997.1 is the last one without LED lighting, so it has more of an "old school" appeal. I can see some logic there....
We will never know until the market decides in the future. It's pointless to spend any time trying to figure it out.
We will never know until the market decides in the future. It's pointless to spend any time trying to figure it out.
10-26-2016, 09:27 AM
#48
Rocky Mountain High
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Rennlist Member
I don't think the lack of LEDs will add value either, but I also think that many people will prefer the 997.1 TT over the 997.2 TT in the future and vica versa, for the reasons we have previously discussed. Everyone has an opinion, as you said.
10-31-2016, 11:18 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I tried looking up the breakdown of the 25,000 997 Turbos produced from least to most numerous:
722 997.2 Turbo manuals (19% of production)
2000 997.2 Turbo S
3078 997.2 Turbo PDK
8500 997.1 Turbo manual (45% of production)
10,560 997.1 Turbo Tiptronic
Two assumptions have been made here: Total911 stated production of manuals for the 997.2 was around 20% before production ended, but since PDK was increasing in popularity, I'm going to go with 19% instead. Also, sources for manual production numbers differ. I've used a 45:55 ratio with the tiptronic here, however please contribute if there's reason to believe it's lower and I'll modify it.
The 997.2 Turbo manual is destined to be a desirable collector's item in the future.
722 997.2 Turbo manuals (19% of production)
2000 997.2 Turbo S
3078 997.2 Turbo PDK
8500 997.1 Turbo manual (45% of production)
10,560 997.1 Turbo Tiptronic
Two assumptions have been made here: Total911 stated production of manuals for the 997.2 was around 20% before production ended, but since PDK was increasing in popularity, I'm going to go with 19% instead. Also, sources for manual production numbers differ. I've used a 45:55 ratio with the tiptronic here, however please contribute if there's reason to believe it's lower and I'll modify it.
The 997.2 Turbo manual is destined to be a desirable collector's item in the future.
11-02-2016, 11:55 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hmmm... This was unexpected. So when I started this thread three weeks ago there were 5 cars for sale in the US and 3 in Canada. Now there are 4 in the US and 0 in Canada. Half are gone, and in October of all months...
Posting prices (USD) of the 4 remaining cars on AutoTRADER.com and mileage to get baseline levels to see what happens from here.
2010 Turbo Coupe grey on black/centerlocks 16,000 miles. Ask is $95k.
2011 Turbo Vert grey on red/base wheels 42,334 miles. Ask is $94k.
2011 Turbo Vert Silver on brown/base wheels 25,000 miles. Ask is $90k.
2011 Turbo Vert grey on red/base wheels 45,360 miles. Ask is $80k.
I'll update my first post in the future to include all subsequent information in this thread. I think that wraps everything up. Will revisit this thread periodically every few months to see what happens. Would be nice to the be the one that called the bottom on this. lol
Posting prices (USD) of the 4 remaining cars on AutoTRADER.com and mileage to get baseline levels to see what happens from here.
2010 Turbo Coupe grey on black/centerlocks 16,000 miles. Ask is $95k.
2011 Turbo Vert grey on red/base wheels 42,334 miles. Ask is $94k.
2011 Turbo Vert Silver on brown/base wheels 25,000 miles. Ask is $90k.
2011 Turbo Vert grey on red/base wheels 45,360 miles. Ask is $80k.
I'll update my first post in the future to include all subsequent information in this thread. I think that wraps everything up. Will revisit this thread periodically every few months to see what happens. Would be nice to the be the one that called the bottom on this. lol
11-18-2016, 08:21 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Subscribed
11-19-2016, 03:39 PM
#52
Racer
Now, regarding the Mezger vs 9A1 debate, just wanted to point out one last thing before everyone else chimes in and then standing back from all this. lol
Mezger has the racing pedigree, the reliability, the prestige etc, and even had an output of 620hp in the GT2 RS making it king of the hill still. That statement holds true in 2016, today.
Now, let me give you an outlook into the future....
GT3R was revealed in 2015 with a 9A1 motor
GT3 Cup was revealed in 2016 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 RSR is going turbo and will be revealed with a turbo... with you guessed it... a 9A1 motor!
2018 GT2 RS will be unveiled in 2017/18, and once again, with the 9A1 motor! And it will have 650-700hp according to reports surpassed the Mezger once again.
The 997.1 owners here keep stating that the Mezger block is the one to have. I'm not sure these forum posters have any foresight because the 9A1 is basically the Mezger II block. It will receive the same status and prestige and racing heritage as the Mezger with time making this whole debate a moot point.
5 years from now people are not going to care to purchase a Mezger over a 9A1. Not sure everyone understands this is the beginning of the motorsport lifespan of the 9A1. The 2014 GT3 fiasco was solved and will be forgotten, unaffecting values years from now.
Anyone care to debate this inevitable future? I think this merits a different thread altogether for everyone to chime in.
Mezger has the racing pedigree, the reliability, the prestige etc, and even had an output of 620hp in the GT2 RS making it king of the hill still. That statement holds true in 2016, today.
Now, let me give you an outlook into the future....
GT3R was revealed in 2015 with a 9A1 motor
GT3 Cup was revealed in 2016 with a 9A1 motor.
GT3 RSR is going turbo and will be revealed with a turbo... with you guessed it... a 9A1 motor!
2018 GT2 RS will be unveiled in 2017/18, and once again, with the 9A1 motor! And it will have 650-700hp according to reports surpassed the Mezger once again.
The 997.1 owners here keep stating that the Mezger block is the one to have. I'm not sure these forum posters have any foresight because the 9A1 is basically the Mezger II block. It will receive the same status and prestige and racing heritage as the Mezger with time making this whole debate a moot point.
5 years from now people are not going to care to purchase a Mezger over a 9A1. Not sure everyone understands this is the beginning of the motorsport lifespan of the 9A1. The 2014 GT3 fiasco was solved and will be forgotten, unaffecting values years from now.
Anyone care to debate this inevitable future? I think this merits a different thread altogether for everyone to chime in.
Also another thing worth noting: People always comment on the tunability of the .1 and how they can make all this power.. Worth considering is it take a lot less power for the .2 to move faster so making huge HP in the .2 isn't as much of a focus. A .2 with 550 WHP will be as fast (or faster) than a .1 with 800 WHP. Just watch longboarder949's vids for proof.
I was a .1 owner and I loved that it's more raw and less refined...just as a Porsche 911 should be. ...but I can appreciate the .2's as well so I don't swing on one side. I appreciate both.
11-19-2016, 11:52 PM
#53
I feel like they made too many of the 997tt total for limited subsections of them to appreciate.
(And I have a manual 09).
(And I have a manual 09).
Last edited by MadScience; 11-21-2016 at 03:17 AM.
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11-22-2016, 12:58 PM
#56
" I bought mine to !!!!! Drive !!!!!! Enjoy/Have Fun,,,,, not as a investment"
Exactly! I bought my 2012 997.2 TT 6MT with GMG lowering springs, GT3 LCA's and GIAC tune to drive.
I bought the 997.2 TT because of the suspension improvements and the good value relative to the 997.1 TT which had already gone up in price.
Exactly! I bought my 2012 997.2 TT 6MT with GMG lowering springs, GT3 LCA's and GIAC tune to drive.
I bought the 997.2 TT because of the suspension improvements and the good value relative to the 997.1 TT which had already gone up in price.
11-22-2016, 03:41 PM
#57
Pro
Not to send this tread in another direction, but there is also the element of coupe vs. cab. In most cases open cars carry a premium, certainly true of the 356 cars, but it would appear that doesn't apply to later cars, at least yet. Anyone want to weigh in with an opinion or projection?
12-04-2016, 03:15 AM
#58
Instructor
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Somewhat on-topic: Does anybody know or has anybody ever seen a 2013 911 Turbo in 6MT? I've heard that they may have been offered in manual for MY2013, but I don't know if one actually exists?
12-04-2016, 10:13 AM
#59
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Mezger engine....hahahaha
that's like saying the 89 3.2 carrera engine is special and people collect 89 carreras for that reason alone, even though they been making some variant of the same engine for 35 years.
95% of buyers don't know the difference between a mezger and new 997.2 engine
a 997 will go the same route as a 996 in terms of collectiblility, there's nothing special about a 997, especially as they keep improving the 911 into the 991 and further on
993 are special due to the air cool. The water cools are nothing special and they made a ton of 997 turbos.
991 turbos will keep depreciating to below 100k and will push 997 turbo prices down, you cant tell me for same money you will take a 997 turbo over a 991 turbo.
Oh yeah, a 997.2 Turbo S does 0 to 60 in 2.8/9 seconds, how much faster do you want? Hence this hogwash about a mezger engine is hogwash.
Disclaimer- i speak for myself and in no way shape or form intend to offend anyone who owns a porsche with mezger engine. at end of day they are all great cars.
that's like saying the 89 3.2 carrera engine is special and people collect 89 carreras for that reason alone, even though they been making some variant of the same engine for 35 years.
95% of buyers don't know the difference between a mezger and new 997.2 engine
a 997 will go the same route as a 996 in terms of collectiblility, there's nothing special about a 997, especially as they keep improving the 911 into the 991 and further on
993 are special due to the air cool. The water cools are nothing special and they made a ton of 997 turbos.
991 turbos will keep depreciating to below 100k and will push 997 turbo prices down, you cant tell me for same money you will take a 997 turbo over a 991 turbo.
Oh yeah, a 997.2 Turbo S does 0 to 60 in 2.8/9 seconds, how much faster do you want? Hence this hogwash about a mezger engine is hogwash.
Disclaimer- i speak for myself and in no way shape or form intend to offend anyone who owns a porsche with mezger engine. at end of day they are all great cars.
