GTRNICK

We will see in time to come

speed21

We all have or day of reckoning Nick

eurotom

Okay so I did have a few more drinks and fell into a "stark raving mad" mood and woke up feeling the same. "Better again" is subjective, to me effieciences 0-60 times nurburgring times are a small part of what a car is. Again I'll say the 991 series cars are a step forward in all the areas mentioned above but from an emotional standpoint they are heading in the opposite direction. A TT used to be a supercar that a poor rich man could own. Now given its price other supercars become much more attractive.

You should feel your new car is better than your 997 and I'm happy you do. Money factor plays an important role in these discussions. My point being a 991TTs is not a 220k USD car.

speed21

So a new tts is not worth 220k and an F or M car is worth more again? It is easy to confuse oneself the F/M car are worth their tags and the Porsche not, (let's face it, primarily because of the exclusivity/pose factor), but in a monitory sense when you evaluate the three the Porsche comes out ahead, and is priced relatively (well) given the engineering and performance. A lot can also depend upon what you look for as an individual really, but the event factor of a 458 or 4C would get old very quickly (for me). So, where these newer faster and more competent Porsche's are concerned money and justification to spend that money will always remain the key driver in rationalizing these types of decision making/buying processes, and, fuel discussions accordingly, (justifying ones stance one way or the other).

I am confident current opinions will change once those in 997tt's find their way into the newer 991 cars due to depreciating values. And of course those picking up on the cheaper 997tt trades will sing their own song of justification accordingly. That will never change.

So, I look forward to the arrival of .2. I just got to be careful not to drive it lol. Then that process starts again

OldGuy

So now I know why every friggin dealer in the land no matter how small has a $200,000 Turbo S sitting in the show room. I couldnt figure this out except its to reduce sticker shock when a guy realizes he plunked down TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND dollars for a 911. This is madness
My dealer in the farming town of Bakersfield has a hard time selling Base Carreras, and I walk in and there is a $200k Turbo S. I asked the manager if that was ordered or a spec car and he said corporate got that for us.

WernerE

When Porsche bumped the Turbos' MSRP $15k - $20k from 2013 to 2014, that was a sign of things to come. It surely rankles Piech that Porsche builds a better car than Ferrari yet it's not charging the same price.

Piech knows there is a lot of margin in exclusivity. The rumored model that fits in between the 911 and 918 is just more evidence of Porsche going upmarket.

speed21

No question about that. If only he could condition the buyers away from their current mindset. I bet he'd love to be getting paid the prices these others are getting away with. I'm also quite sure Porsche is no longer concerned with TT's sales numbers. The 911 is no longer the bread and butter model. The huge selling Cayenne and Macan have taken over. If they sell fewer 911's the car will become more "exclusive" which is not a bad thing. Main problem is all of a sudden the usual buyers are being told they have to pay more to play. However it is an absolutely incredible car and ownership of one quickly convinces the buyer it is worth every penny.

OldGuy

Speed21 wrote:I understand what you are saying but then I have to wonder why big dealers have 15-20 $200K 911 TTS, seems like they want to sell ALOT. Whats really wierd is to see the 20 911 TTS's and 3 911 TT.
Things may have changed but thats what I saw at Beverly Hills and Woodland Hills Dealers.

I have a friend who is a noted physician at Cedar Sinai (point is he can have what ever car he cares for) told me the later Ferraris are "mass produced and sloppily built, the 911 is a much better car" Note we were talking about Ferraris main models, like the 360,430, 458.
If he knows this then I am CERTAIN that Piech knows that and is rankled to the point of seething.

It just kind of bothers me that the 911 was built on the backs of the American sports car enthusiast(and others), the guy who has to sell his Corvette then work and save to buy his dream 911 and now he is going to push the NEW 911 beyond the reach of the guy that made it famous. The way the economy is going its almost there now, but if he wants $200,000 as an average price for a 911, then he is pushing his main customer almost exclusively into the secondary market OR onto the Bosxter line.

Thats just me thinking out loud here in the chatroom

speed21

I hear you. It's been much the same here too. The 991 doesn't appear to have sold in the same numbers as 997/996. I could be wrong but I just don't see 991's in the traffic in the volumes of 997/6. Dealers here were initially given a TTS and a TT as mandatory floor stock but none flew off the floor and once the initial demo phase blew over deals were done to shift what they had, but they still never gave them away. Now it has gone back to order only for the TTS/TT and they still do take the odd order (or so I'm told). As a usual 911 buyer I felt the prices went too far this time but there is good and bad in that approach. For those that paid the price there is now some "exclusivity" you could say by way of there being so few on the road. The 991 car by rights is still rather well priced vs a F, L or M car. USA is also a big market too so you guys were bound to see greater numbers dumped on your dealers. And then you have the situation where 200 isn't a lot of chaff for a car like this in the eyes of the rest of the world. e.g Out here I'd pay 220 in a heartbeat...sheez if only. It all comes down to the price conditioning which has gone on for years. USD has also taken quite a hit against the euro as well. I'd say for Porsche it may now be an exercise in conditioning the current mindset of the usual 911 buyer to pay more given what the competition is getting away with. And, with the numbers in the other models to rely upon Porsche may not have the motivation to move prices on 911 down. Maybe the next few years will see a shift? It will be interesting to see what the used market will pay for 2 to 3 year old cars. I sure do hope it is more than what it has been paying. That way the changeover won't be so painful as it has been. I wish.

93ls1rx7

What are you talking about? The dollar is currently within a penny or 3 of the best it has been versus the euro since before the 997.1 generation of vehicles were produced. Were arent in the 2002 timeframe where the dollar outpaced the euro but it is as strong now as it has been since the debut of the 997 variant.

You cant use that excuse any more. I have a feeling you post in these particular discussions to make yourself feel better about buying the "newer" car and that is ok. If I took money out of the equation I would own the newest available too but I am not a purest nor do I have the bank account to cover a 200K+ car.

JohnCK2014

That makes me feel better about the long term value of my 996 C4S. Cars are changing so rapidly right now in a decade or so the difference between the 993 and the 996 will seem less and less significant because both will be so different compared to the new ones.

aa909

Come now. The 993 is the last of the air cooled purist 911s and will live on as an iconic car. The 996 with those headlights will always be an outlier IMO. No offense meant. Enjoy your car as it is a killer machine

JohnCK2014

You know what another name for purist is? Old. Every year they get older and less relevant. Moreover, the headlight objection is a poser objection. No one says they are ugly on Boxters. They just get called ugly on 911s because God forbid anyone coming the other way think I am driving a Boxter.

The big thing the n/a 996s have over the 997.1s is that you can change out the IMS as regular maintenance and don't have to crack open the engine block. The older the 997.1s get the bigger issue that is going to become and less people will care about the headlights. If and when I ever go to a newer model, I will skip over the 997.1 and go to a 997.2 that doesn't have an IMS.

Boeing 717

Guess Im a Poser.

Yea those Purist/OLD long hood 911S's sure are irrelevant now.

hs43

Skip out the 997.1 in favour of 997.2 because of IMS issues? Are we still talking about turbos? Never heard of this issue being common in a Mezger engine, only the Carreras